30 points TMWNN 1 hour ago 62 comments

izzydata 32 minutes ago | parent

Threatening people is unwarranted, but of course people are allowed to choose where they buy coffee for whatever reasons they see fit. If the market decides that stores with AI posters aren't the place to be then the business has to adapt.

garyfirestorm 23 minutes ago | parent

i generally go to the store where the coffee tastes better

Freedom2 18 minutes ago | parent

Agreed. That's actually what OP said as well.

seattle_spring 14 minutes ago | parent

Using AI to make a sign is likely a pretty good indicator as to the effort the owner puts into other aspects of their business.

orangedog 13 minutes ago | parent

It only signals to me that they have other priorities.

sega_sai 12 minutes ago | parent

Unless they use the time they previously spent making a sign into making a better coffee.

jrflowers 5 minutes ago | parent

How would a coffee shop spend an hour making their coffee better

Like you own a coffee shop and you’ve freed up one hour in the 12 weeks before you have to make a new sign, what do you do in that hour that makes the coffee better?

fragmede 7 minutes ago | parent

Yes. It's a sign they spend a lot of effort making good coffee and don't have a lot of effort left over to work on a sign.

krapp 5 minutes ago | parent

They own the business, they don't make the coffee, nor did they make the sign they had earlier.

ratelimitsteve 21 minutes ago | parent

the only "threat" mentioned in the article is that someone said that if she didn't take the sign down they would post about it in a local artist community. Threatening people with violence is always unwarranted, but trying to portray talking with other people about what someone is doing as a "threat" is disingenuous.

Legend2440 13 minutes ago | parent

Oh, please. You know what they're threatening: an internet mob. That's not just "talking".

krapp 9 minutes ago | parent

It was literally just talking, though.

brandon272 11 minutes ago | parent

I think that issuing an ultimatum where if the person does not do what you want, that you will be sharing your concerns with likeminded people online, with the underlying implication being that the business owner will end up experiencing some kind of negative outcome from that, is absolutely a threat.

jrflowers 10 minutes ago | parent

Nobody threatened the business owner. Somebody offered the business a chance to change up the ad (and help doing so) before it got shared, and the owner figured it would be better to go viral with the slop ad. Now there’s an article in Business Insider painting the business as the victim of mean customers that assaulted it by not liking the slop poster, so it looks like it all worked out for them.

nyc_data_geek1 32 minutes ago | parent

Live by the slop, die by the slop.

childofhedgehog 23 minutes ago | parent

tolerance 22 minutes ago | parent

> Then came a threat. An account with a much larger following DM'd her and told her to take down the sign, or they would post about it to their local artist community. The person offered to help her find an artist to pay to make a new sign, or else they would post about it.

> They gave her a day to "think about it."

When this is sort of behavior that the "good guys" advance then it's hard not to expect a "bad guy" with money to show up on the scene and thwart it.

ratelimitsteve 18 minutes ago | parent

why is talking about this with their community a threat?

Footkerchief 15 minutes ago | parent

"Threat" is a correct term for an attempt to compel action via potential negative consequences.

brandon272 10 minutes ago | parent

"Nice business you've got here, shame if something happened to it"

chucksta 8 minutes ago | parent

Its implied the talk is to rally the troops not gather general opinion

cricketsandmops 20 minutes ago | parent

Im shocked she spent so much to get it printed. The design looks so cheap

Imnimo 20 minutes ago | parent

I would definitely be less likely to buy food/drink from a place with AI ads (because I don't trust that what they're advertising would correspond to what they're selling), but I can't imagine threatening someone over it.

ratelimitsteve 18 minutes ago | parent

I would once again like to point out that the "threat" mentioned in the article is someone saying they'll talk about what the shop owner did with their friends.

kbelder 15 minutes ago | parent

"post about it in a local artist community" is not exactly "talk about it with their friends."

It's bullying.

cmiles8 20 minutes ago | parent

The reaction folks had is OTT, but it does look like AI slop.

One group of folks is trying to say we basically have AGI. The other group is pointing to AI that remains very limited and where lowly humans can spot anything it’s created from a mile away. The evidence continues to point towards the later.

orangedog 17 minutes ago | parent

I mean there's a pretty big third group there which recognizes the good parts and the bad parts. Right?

For every person who can spot it a mile away I wonder how many false positives they have or simply aren't aware of it. If you're looking for it, with people using it a lot these days, of course you are going to have a high success rate.

But really I don't think it falls neatly into either of those categories.

pixl97 17 minutes ago | parent

Much like CGI in movies, you only notice bad CGI.

wackget 19 minutes ago | parent

> "Endeladyze said she felt terrible that she had upset her customers, but she was also frustrated at the idea that she should have been paying a real artist. Making these signs was a job only she had done herself or with employees in the past, never hiring outsiders."

This seems like the wrong attitude to take after experiencing such a backlash. If she'd made the signs herself for years then why resort to using AI to produce what is so obviously a generic slop result?

The article says she paid $150 for printing and $200 for a stand. Why not throw another $200 towards an artist?

kevmo 12 minutes ago | parent

Sounds like she was undervaluing her previous employee's artistic skills.

Chance-Device 18 minutes ago | parent

This isn’t really about AI, it’s about a culture where threats and coercion in service of one’s own ideology have become normalised.

sleepybrett 17 minutes ago | parent

No it's about people thinking that I should care about their business when they clearly do not. When you use AI in these lazy ways it's clear that you just don't care.

Chance-Device 15 minutes ago | parent

That doesn’t even make sense. If you’re a customer before she puts up the sign it hasn’t magically made the coffee or the service worse. You want to force her to act the way you want, it’s that simple.

jplusequalt 17 minutes ago | parent

>This isn’t really about AI, it’s about a culture where threats and coercion in service of one’s own ideology have become normalised

This has always been a thing.

tomjen3 6 minutes ago | parent

Thats true. This story makes me think artists are spoiled and entitled little shits, which isn’t fair to all of them of cause.

Chance-Device 3 minutes ago | parent

I don’t think it’s the artists who are doing things like this. It’s usually people who aren’t directly impacted and are “working” on other people’s behalf who do this sort of thing. I suspect it’s power-seeking personalities using a socially acceptable excuse to exercise power over someone else.

sleepybrett 18 minutes ago | parent

My basic stance these days is 'if you were too lazy to do this yourself and handed it off to ai then why should i be motivated to engage with it'

This primarily, for me, has resulted in me ignoring a lot of long winded tickets.

the user a generate's email/documentation/whatever via claude > sent to user b > user b uses claude to summarize it ... loop is shitty.

This applies less to me for code as long as you are reviewing it throughly and 'sculpting' it throughly to make it readable/maintainable.

Care about your work if you want me to care about your work.

HanShotFirst 16 minutes ago | parent

I've noticed a very sudden uptick in these AI designed signs and menus in my area. I fully understand why they are used by small business owners (fast and cheap), and I think getting angry at or threatening a business owner for using them is a huge overreaction.

That said, my own aesthetic sense is very much turned off by them. It is hard for me to articulate why, but I can name four reasons:

- The food never actually looks good, real, or delicious;

- The information is presented in a haphazard way, with text randomly thrown all over the place;

- There is really only one kind of "style" of these signs that I've seen, and it's sad to think that this style (or lack thereof) may become ubiquitous;

- In a world where AI feels increasingly shoved down our throats, it is unnerving to so suddenly see its rise manifested in the physical world.

dwedge 13 minutes ago | parent

> She was up during the night pumping for her three-month-old baby and was scrolling through the comments and DMs, horrified. "At 4 a.m., I was holding my pump on my lap and replying to this person, 'I'm so sorry. I didn't mean it that way,'" she told me. "I was so into typing this message that I produced so much milk, it was dripping

Articles like this always rub me the wrong way. I don't know the term for it, but I feel you should be able to make the point without making us picture a new mother getting stressed breast pumping in the middle of the night.

mft_ 9 minutes ago | parent

I agree to a degree - it feels manipulative on the part of the writer, trying to exaggerate any sympathy a reader might feel.

That said, I also feel that the level of negativity the lady suffered was a little out of proportion to her 'crime' - essentially amounting to bullying.

k310 12 minutes ago | parent

The article contains a rather beautiful example done via camera (and product photography demands that you get the froth and lighting just in time and just right) decorated by an artistic employee.

The owner had to resort to her standby Canva when the employee left, but lacking time due to a newborn.

To me, having followed all kinds of embedded links over to Vermont and Germany, the latter example being extraordinarily unappetizing. [0]

Stepping back to get the big picture, it seems to me that small business owners have gotten spoiled by local artists and artistic employees who created really beautiful signs and brochures. Come crunch time, it's either pay a local artist or DIY. And to get "pretty" artwork, many resort to AI, which mostly ain't pretty, sometimes pretty grotesque.

But this seems to be a case of wanting things both ways. AI is famous for really bizarre food rendering, as exhibited below. Customers really want food and preparation to look real. So why not set up a simple grid (say, Pages on a mac or Libre Office or Scribus) and pair the best photo you can grab with a description opposite it, on a nice background?

Other than KISS, you can get excellent art for a price, or slop for cheap (or at least, artificial art that advertises itself as such).

Increasing costs affect not only businesses, but people needing work, some of whom have lost jobs and income, are understandably upset.

The workflow I described can be done for little cost if DIY is not suitable, perhaps even a local photography class (who would work for (coffee) beans?)

I refer friends learning photography, intrigued by their phone cameras, and wanting to expand their skill set, to community college and other classes. Maybe even one of those starving artists.

Businesses brag about sourcing locally. I see a way to do so, but good art requires good artists, just as product photography requires some skill.

You can't have it all, or damn cheap. You must choose wisely.

P.S. My Dad was a commercial artist and I am an amateur photographer. And I make my own coffee. Yikes, the cost. If it's atmosphere, do put some nice art on the walls and let the product speak for itself.

My two cents, or "Sixbucks" worth.

[0] https://x02.me/i/F7ZX6.jpeg

cowanon77 9 minutes ago | parent

I do have compassion for people who are not tech oriented. AI art can seems a bit kitsch and novel at first, and they probably don't really think about ethical consequences very deeply.

The problem is it all looks the same, and those of us who are terminally online are exposed to it non-stop. AI slop seems to be poisoning every space that used to have quality conversations, and mass un-employing many creative professions.

People do have the right to vote with their feet though - it is perfectly ethical to support coffee shops that support the local artist community and avoid ones with AI "art". Too bad we've mostly lost the ability to rationally discuss things, instead of resorting to threats right off the bat.

inoop 7 minutes ago | parent

As an artist, or software engineer for that matter, you do not have an inalienable right to be paid for something that can be automated through AI.

sippingabonedry 5 minutes ago | parent

I'm willing to bet most of these people don't even patronize her store because they are terminally online unemployed losers who can't afford more than freeze-dried Folgers.

Never let the mob win. They don't deserve her coffee, good riddance.

If you are sending threats to strangers on social media you are at minimum mentally ill, she has something to gain by losing them as customers.

Small businesses barely get by. Someone with work as transient as "artist" should know better.

viktorcode 2 minutes ago | parent

Makes me wonder what constitutes a bigger danger for the society: putting up a bad taste AI-generated menu poster, or threatening people’s businesses for that action.

slibhb 1 minute ago | parent

"AI-generated" looks bad to a large minority of people. It is not clear if the majority notices, much less cares.

That aside, if you spend 5 minutes prompting AI, you can create an image that no one will clock as AI.