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Android 17 is the first since 3.x to add new APIs without releasing to the AOSP

105 points theanonymousone 1 hour ago 28 comments

ahmd-sh 27 minutes ago | parent

i despise where Google is going with this. it's a duopoly in the smartphone OS space and we need (for lack of a better analogy, spare the technicals) open-source distros like we have with Linux on desktop.

Graphene is reaching that status for me every day and i'm looking forward to switching to it as my daily driver.

pojntfx 22 minutes ago | parent

GrapheneOS is pretty neat, https://postmarketos.org/ is also pretty damn polished out of the box these days. I'd argue the "mobile desktop Linux systems" are actually a bit more polished than Graphene, esp. when it comes to default apps (no AOSP abandonware dialer, contacts etc. apps to fight with, it's all just maintained, responsive GNOME/KDE apps)

spijdar 11 minutes ago | parent

I want to believe this, but it's hard for me to take this at face value. It's been about 4 years since I've run pmOS, so my experience IS very out of date, but I also have a hard time believing that the experience has radically changed in the meantime.

The short is that yes the GNOME/KDE apps do often look more impressive, but they suffer the same sort of malaise which seems to have infected Linux desktops sometime since Eternal September, and between the sporadic crashing and "this doesn't feel right", it's really hard for me to accept "It's more polished than AOSP!".

pmOS's installation page opening with a warning:

   Make sure you read state of postmarketOS before installing postmarketOS.
Which leads to a page that opens with:

  The goal is to make postmarketOS usable for everyone, but we are not there yet. Usability and most importantly stability issues need to be worked out first. If you are looking for an OS that is as usable as iOS or Android, this project is currently not for you.
Does not do a lot to dissuade my skepticism. I know you said the apps specifically, but even there, it's like... I dunno.

cobertos 8 minutes ago | parent

I tried getting it to run on a Pixel 3a and struggled for hours, eventually gave up (albeit I tried running it with Wayland and Niri which seems less tried-and-true).

kenhwang 14 minutes ago | parent

I just wish Graphene had better support for non-Google hardware.

armadyl 12 minutes ago | parent

More like OEMs need to take security more seriously and add in the capable hardware and commit to firmware updates long term.

vkaku 8 minutes ago | parent

Those Razr phone updates need to start landing sooner ....

subscribed 7 minutes ago | parent

They can't due to the shortcomings of the hardware (why develop a hardened os to the grossly insecure hardware) or the vendor (no/slow updates, etc).

Anyone is free to fork, add the desired hardware support and flash.

(that's aside of some Moto flagships in 2027)

b112 12 minutes ago | parent

If Google doesn't smarten up, it will no longer be in control of Android.

Oracle was a mighty powerhouse when it bought MySQL, StarOffice, and more. It lost defacto control of all of them, due to its stupidity. In the world of open source, the tighter you hold on, the less likely you'll retain control.

And yet, here we are, with Google playing games.

Google, a note: there are far more relying upon Android than you, and now there are forced alternative stores in the mix. If Samsung and everyone else said "sorry Google', or even a large majority, you're out. Gone. Nada.

They can now fork, and force old Android to have their new fancy pants 'Play' store too.

Google is also getting more and more pushy with Chrome. What if everyone depending upon that backend, shrugs and says "Sorry Google, we're hard-forking Chrome and we'll all maintain it".

anonzzzies 2 minutes ago | parent

> Oracle was a mighty powerhouse

It definitly still is. We run Postgres when we host our banking / financial stuff, but when we talk with banks and say that, they demand Oracle not that 'open source amateur stuff'. We have a version of our software for Oracle (and MSSQL) as well so no biggy, but still, we always try if we know it's not a complete immediate kill (which it will be if we put it in our documentation as only option). Oracle is still everywhere at the big guys.

VCFundedGenYer 23 minutes ago | parent

Android has been so thoroughly disappointing through the years. Started as a great open free form alternative to iOS, to becoming the very thing it sought to combat.

josteink 21 minutes ago | parent

If Android wants to be the inferior not-open-source mobile OS, why would I not just buy an iPhone instead then?

It’s closed too, sure, but at least it’s more consistent.

pimeys 18 minutes ago | parent

Android has free and open artificial pancreas that is still easy to install and keeps us with complex type 1 diabetes alive.

Google may just want to kill us and Apple don't even let this kind of software exist without massive hurdles...

wps 22 minutes ago | parent

The amount of roadblocks Google is putting up for GrapheneOS is just ridiculous. None of their decisions make any sense, from the delayed source patches upstream, to the embargos, attestation issues, etc. Google simply regrets android being open source.

monomania 16 minutes ago | parent

There's a non-zero chance that three-letter agencies are lobbying for at least some of this.

bebeirjd848r 13 minutes ago | parent

GrapheneOS does not even register on Google scale! It does not even manufacture its own devices!

Bigger problem is HarmonyOS and similar devices, compatible with Android. Opensource threat from china!

And no NSA backdoors or honeypots!

7734128 12 minutes ago | parent

It's not a regret. Android would never have been popular in the first place if it had not been open source. If phone makers had been able to anticipate how much the demons at Google would be able to lock down the Android then they would never had used the OS back in ~2009.

mrpippy 6 minutes ago | parent

That’s possible (never underestimate the bad decision-making of phone makers), but what would they have done instead? Windows Mobile 6 was the only licensable alternative, but it was a known quantity and obviously a generation behind Android and iOS.

thevillagechief 3 minutes ago | parent

I don't think this is actually true. Phone makers seem happy to have the platform locked down even further. They're putting even more roadblocks, as evidenced by most of them making bootloaders unlockable.

Retr0id 8 minutes ago | parent

Google is also seriously dropping the ball in terms of security. The CVE-2026-43499 root LPE (aka ghostlock) is still unpatched across all Pixel devices, on the latest """security""" update, despite weaponized exploits being public for months.

petcat 14 minutes ago | parent

Does anyone contribute to AOSP besides Google? Does Google actually accept any patches into "upstream" and ultimately into their own commercial distro?

nzeid 7 minutes ago | parent

The phrasing of your first question is ironic given GrapheneOS has upstreamed a ton of their security hardening.

You're probably asking if they're able contribute anymore?

vkaku 9 minutes ago | parent

Many developers will likely be developing at Android 16 APIs only. Will rely on Aptoide+AOSP exclusively. This is likely the timeline we'll see a decline in Play Store and Pixel usage.

Ajedi32 8 minutes ago | parent

Important details further down: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/117282129725629495

So it seems like the problem isn't that the new API is Pixel exclusive, but that the first and third quarterly release patches each year are Pixel exclusive?