YHK - yet another hacker news clone

As opposed to the many famous cases of unicameral American legislation?

It should be more about making certain levels of consolidation and deep erosion of local ownership illegal.

We have run this country on an assumption that we must give businesses a high amount of freedom. An argument can be made that businesses have been given too much freedom in our system. We’ve allowed Amazon and Ticketmaster and Walmart to exist and they shouldn’t exist in their present form.

Healthcare practices that provide necessary care shouldn’t even really be allowed to be for-profit entities if you ask me. The incentives become too perverse as a result.

If the business is a hospital?

Yes.

  Should they be outlawed from selling to certain classes of investor? Which?

Yes. This is already the case for law firms as they have to be owned and managed by lawyers, in most jurisdictions.

That's just not true. Distressed and turnaround investing represent less than 20% of PE acquisitions [0].

[0] https://www.ey.com/en_us/insights/private-equity/pulse

They don't have to have an in-depth understanding of leveraged finance to get pissed off when their doctors start doubling prices or their own employment conditions get worse or their parents get treated badly in care homes because the staff are now overworked etc. they're mad at the outcomes they're overwhelmingly not actually trying to debate the merits of it from an exit liquidity perspective.

That's one model of private equity, but PE has also been buying up very successful local businesses in areas like veterinary care. The PE firm keeps the name and branding of the local vet because people have traditionally wanted to take their pet to a trusted local vet, not a big chain.

Improving efficiency and optimizing profit are two overlapping segments on the road to crap. It’s not easy to stop the car once you put the bean counters in the driver's seat. If a company is able to do so, it’s usually because there’s a strong leader or culture to resist the slide. But otherwise it’s a thousand small decisions that all seem reasonable on their own.

In human med, it's a pretty standard practice to offer a management company 10% ownership for them to handle the business shit.

I'm not arguing with you; I'm legitimately curious what happened to that model and why PE has swooped in as more attractive to doctors. Maybe it's the payout and/or the fact that they don't have to handle business owner decisions at _all_ anymore?

What does it mean in this context to be more intelligent and shrewd than the existing owners? Delivering better profit margins?

What shows that they are more intelligent? They might be better at extracting value from enterprise, but is that generally “more intelligent?”

Hard disagree about "more intelligent". They are playing a financial game using a combination of leverage and reptilian ruthlessness to EBITDA hack.

They buy one (or more) companies, often with only the slimmest understanding of what those companies do, slash opex by gutting the company with layoffs (yay EBITDA), maybe staple a few such companies together with leveraged buy-outs, then resell the whole bundle for more than they paid.

From experience, they don't give a single crap whether the resulting mess still functions. They care about selling the company for more than they bought it for. That prospect is only tenuously and at best accidentally related to whether the company still functions.

The private equity companies I've had to deal with were full of braindead MBA spreadsheet monkeys and used car salesmen. Their chief differentiator was that they worked 80 hours a week and were enthusiastic about laying people off without much deliberation.

Thinking private equity is "more intelligent" than business owners is like thinking house flippers are "more intelligent" than home owners. No. They know how to rip out carpet and replace it with laminate on the cheap. They know how to cut corners and hide it. They know buyers will over value a fresh veneer of paint. They don't give a shit about the long-term health or value of the house. They are not better stewards of houses. They specialize in short-term profit maximization and that is literally it.

Remove “more intelligent” here and I’ll give you some benefit.

The problem with healthcare “economics” is that providing high quality care is likely not as profitable as middling care, or sub-standard care.

You say that economics is meant to deliver cheap quality goods, but in reality here economics for PE is value extraction and has nothing to do with consumer good at all - unless of course there’s more profit there. Most of the time, there isn’t.

We know how to make MRI cheaper. Put it in a can. MRI suites are built with copper shielding in the walls, and the machines are really heavy, which creates huge capital costs. (Capex is a big problem for medicine.) There's an easy solution: you can just put an MRI machine in a standard tractor-trailer container and bring the patients in. Nothing has to be constructed or installed.

None of the private equity chains with the sans-serif fonts, simplified logos and trisyllabic names are doing this, though. It's bad marketing. Patients don't want to walk outside to an MRI machine in the parking lot. It feels sketchy. Never mind that they score just as well on the ACR image quality tests as the in-room machines. Who the hell knows what that is?

In reality, it's the county hospitals and big universities that use them! Places that have in-house physicists who can argue for what really makes sense in practice. A major problem with healthcare as a business is that the customer does not usually understand the product, but they still need to buy it, and there are time constraints.

Lots of other efficiencies to look at. Tons of them are directly bad for the patient (capturing more of the surplus is an efficiency that businesses generally go hard at).

Ultimately, I think the issue is when people making decisions are able to treat the impact as an abstraction.

I don’t think that’s true though in all cases. Sometimes PE just offers more money passing the debt into the company they acquire. But smaller players would still take control.

The cap is generous. If an insurance company is hitting it, competition is failing to keep them in check and lifting the cap would just let them gouge deeper. Of course, that doesn't keep them from constantly yapping this talking point, as if it wasn't that way before, as if we don't have evidence that it wouldn't work. "Just lift our profit cap" is self-serving baloney.

yes. It's completely insane that health insurance A) does all price discovery B) is tied to your employer.

Ask an American hospital how much something costs - you will get a completely fake price back, this is a sign of a totally broken market.

I'm sorry, compared to what? We're not talking about a routine doctor's office for healthy people. Advanced care is extremely technologically intensive and your local surgeon is not personally buying the $20M in infrastructure required for many modern advanced treatments. Venture capital has been essential for progress in medicine, and many advanced therapies are going to be increasingly delivered vertically integrated for the widest accessibility and best outcomes.

"Private equity" also includes venture capital here. It means all private direct investment. The thing you are imagining is one small corner of what private equity actually is.