109 points Danhale93 1 hour ago 67 comments
ferrule 57 minutes ago | parent
osmukka 47 minutes ago | parent
panick21_ 34 minutes ago | parent
There are are arguments to be made about private or public but that logic makes no sense.
Some system that have many private aspects outperform other public systems and the other way around. And even in a public system many people will profit as many of the companies that are your suppliers are still for profit.
lotsofpulp 46 minutes ago | parent
Yes, you can allow patients to go uncovered. This hero mentality is what leads the bosses to not properly staff and the politicians to not properly fund in the first place.
It is not an individual’s responsibility to correct a societal failure by hurting themselves.
Ensorceled 40 minutes ago | parent
khalic 45 minutes ago | parent
throw39304938 21 minutes ago | parent
bryanlarsen 19 minutes ago | parent
simonw 44 minutes ago | parent
> I had worked in a hospital network that covered 4 campuses and drove 500kms a week when covering these sites. I had worked in a hospital where I didn’t get home for days at a time, sleeping overnight in hospital quarters, outpatient clinic benches and in my car.
As a patient, I'd like the person performing surgery on me to be well-rested!
It gets worse:
> I used to be able to arrange the operating list because I know that some operations take longer than others. But now, the bookings office determine that that all my tonsillectomies take 14 minutes because that’s the average time recorded on the computer. The moment I scrub in, the timer starts. The moment I unscrub timer stops. Click. Click. Click. Because the theatre bookings does not take into account the interpreter time, pre-med period or transfer to ICU, the list is running late. The nurse in charge is breathing down my neck to finish on time.
And yet somehow that 14 minute tonsillectomy gets billed at ~$10,000.
This seems to me like a system that has been hyperoptimized in a way that grinds down the participants.
askonomm 31 minutes ago | parent
joenot443 23 minutes ago | parent
You don't perceive that system to be different from grocery stores, auto manufacturing, Nvidia, or lemonade stands? They're all very different in my mind, I'm surprised you see them as identical.
estearum 44 minutes ago | parent
There's no solution other than training a lot, lot, lot, lot more doctors.
Their salaries need to be lower, training needs to be cheaper and faster, and we need a lot more of them.
ossicones 38 minutes ago | parent
askari01 30 minutes ago | parent
joenot443 27 minutes ago | parent
I hear people say "we need more doctors" all the time. It would seem to me, the people deciding how many new doctors we train per year, are doctors. Their pay is proportionate to their scarcity, if we had 5x as many doctors, existing doctors would make far less.
Imagine if existing software engineers got to decide how many juniors entered our profession each year. I think things would look very, very different.
sebastiansm7 21 minutes ago | parent
khalic 37 minutes ago | parent
seb1204 35 minutes ago | parent
panick21_ 24 minutes ago | parent
You have to create a healthy system, that takes social engineering and government cooperating on a general plan. And in the US such a thing is basically not possible, even if they wanted to do it.
Ideally your transportation, agricultural, educational policies should all work together to produce healthy population. But this simply isn't the case.
But it will not 'reduce pressure' in a practical way, because such changes purely private or public take decades to work themselves threw the population.
Forgeties79 4 minutes ago | parent
I can’t even get basic foot stuff covered, they won’t care until my feet and knees land me under “disability,” so people like me - but unlike me they can’t afford to spend hundreds more a year on special inserts and shoes - just keep doing what they’re doing until they’re hurt.
rolisz 34 minutes ago | parent
Speaking from Romania: here medicine is prestigious. So many parents push their kids towards medicine. There's a glut of newly minted doctors every year, but rumour has it that the quality drops every year. Sure, they pass the exams and residency and what not, but... They're just not into medicine as much.
Do you want to get treated by such a person?
This year I had to go to a neurologist. I went to one locally, they dismissed me in 5 minutes, told me to take some vitamins basically. Went to another one in a much bigger city, they talked to me for an hour, ordered a ton of tests.
Would it help if we get a lot more of the first kind of doctors?
postalcoder 25 minutes ago | parent
TeMPOraL 23 minutes ago | parent
In my country, there's a big feud between cardiologists and radiologists right now, big enough to be a regular topic in national media. Inside sources tell me it has nothing to do with quality of care, and is entirely about the march of technology allowing radiologists to perform some diagnostics that previously required cardiological procedures, and those procedures happened to be the major funding source for the cardiology departments.
adrianN 23 minutes ago | parent
lolakutty 23 minutes ago | parent
Earlier you just need to find a doctor and they were probably good. Now you have to take your luck with many till you find a good one (if you are still alive by then)..
I don't know why people think that they can mass produce competence..
expedition32 19 minutes ago | parent
cbg0 14 minutes ago | parent
I'll give you some N=1 sample on older doctors since I'm also from Romania: a lot of these older doctors haven't opened a book in a very long time and are still using older practices instead of providing their patients with the latest and most effective treatments available because they're too lazy and/or prestigious to go and learn new things. Would you say that they "into medicine"?
> Would it help if we get a lot more of the first kind of doctors?
It would certainly help hypochondriacs a lot. Ordering "a ton of tests" needs to have some basis behind it, and doing it just to make the patient "feel seen" is not a great way to do your profession. People being dismissed quickly also happens in the US quite a lot, sometimes with disastrous results though it's not incredibly common, it's typically labeled under "diagnostic error" https://qualitysafety.bmj.com/content/23/9/727.long
account42 4 minutes ago | parent
Hard to tell when you don't let us know which of those doctors ended up solving the issues that made you seek a doctor.
Dismissive doctors are bad but so are those that waste your time and risk complications from unnecessary invasive tests.
simianwords 33 minutes ago | parent
We need to reduce the requirements to be a doctor. I think general ability is way way way more important than the specialisation. I don't think the speciality that doctors spend money and time on add that much value..
azan_ 31 minutes ago | parent
And why do you think that? I'm a doctor and I disagree completely - the medicine nowadays is so advanced, that it's impossible to keep up with advances without specialising yourself in narrow area.
simianwords 30 minutes ago | parent
7952 32 minutes ago | parent
balderdash 29 minutes ago | parent
mococa 26 minutes ago | parent
lolakutty 20 minutes ago | parent
No, the reality is we should be more healthy, so we need less doctors.
killingtime74 7 minutes ago | parent
zsoltkacsandi 17 minutes ago | parent
I think building a better prevention layer is more important.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that we need more doctors (and nurses, and physios, and dietetists, and ...), but it is much easier to scale a good prevention system than the number of workers in healthcare.
gww 14 minutes ago | parent
Edit: I should have mentioned that pediatrics and family medicine represent a large proportion of available residency spots each year and are rarely full.
Forgeties79 11 minutes ago | parent
You could argue specialists should make less but considering how long it takes to become a doctor, how much work it takes to get there, how long you’re putting off real earning potential, school debt, etc., I do not consider 150k overpaid.
From a more practical angle, I don’t know how you could possibly find more doctors by lowering their earning potential.
Palomides 5 minutes ago | parent
sucks but that's incentives for ya
hutattedonmyarm 43 minutes ago | parent
This is Going to Hurt: Secret Diaries of a Junior Doctor by Adam Kay
n4r9 32 minutes ago | parent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_Going_to_Hurt_(TV_seri...
asdefghyk 41 minutes ago | parent
panick21_ 21 minutes ago | parent
I'm sure burnouts happen but the fundamental problem is the pipeline.
carver2941 41 minutes ago | parent
ransom1538 40 minutes ago | parent
Medicine is ran by a bunch of creepy boards. "ACGME Review Committee for Dermatology." For example gets together and votes on how many Dermatologist we get, fun fact it doesn't go up much.
$They were so kind to add 400 more Dermatologist$ in the past decade to the student pipeline.$ What could the rea$son be?
What I would do if you are a doctor and don't hate humans - ask these boards to let more people in (hopefully Americans, but Americans have an uphill climb getting accepted with the flood of fraud applications from around the world).
reverius42 35 minutes ago | parent
Why? Do you think Americans make better doctors?
underdeserver 34 minutes ago | parent
panick21_ 33 minutes ago | parent
1970-01-01 32 minutes ago | parent
exdoctormachina 29 minutes ago | parent
I'm in the process of leaving the profession.
I don't feel guilty for the patients who will be left behind, they voted for this.
brrrrrm 9 minutes ago | parent
kiln_ash 25 minutes ago | parent
ratmice 23 minutes ago | parent
robertcope 20 minutes ago | parent
logicallee 18 minutes ago | parent
nsnsnsnsjsj 12 minutes ago | parent
cbg0 11 minutes ago | parent
throw39304938 15 minutes ago | parent
kunley 10 minutes ago | parent