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Creatine uptake enhances antitumor immunity

52 points lormayna 41 minutes ago 52 comments

deadbabe 29 minutes ago | parent

There’s just so much evidence that creatine is something people should take daily, and now this?

carrja99 28 minutes ago | parent

I’ve taken to snorting it. Straight to the brain it goes!

ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 22 minutes ago | parent

you joke, but that is a real issue for some

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_creatine_deficiency

asdff 16 minutes ago | parent

I've been smoking mine

robotsquidward 27 minutes ago | parent

- Enhances ANTI-tumor... sounds good - ANTI-tumor immunity... sounds bad? - Read first few paragraphs as a typical medical rube, got nowhere

So, creatine = good?

gbil 23 minutes ago | parent

I mean the summary ends with pretty clear message

> …and support the use of creatine supplementation as a strategy to augment DC-based cancer immunotherapy.

So it seems that from this research the outcome is indeed creatine = good

el_benhameen 21 minutes ago | parent

Don’t worry, if you aren’t confused enough there’s also this to send you through another cycle! https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33811821/

readthenotes1 17 minutes ago | parent

Original title may be clearer?

Creatine uptake promotes dendritic cell activation and enhances antitumor immunity

lormayna 9 minutes ago | parent

Original title is too long, I had to shorten it

HedonicEscal8r 15 minutes ago | parent

"Immunity" = "immune system activity." "Anti-tumor immunity" = "immune system activity against tumors."

adammarples 10 minutes ago | parent

Anti-missile shielding

dessimus 4 minutes ago | parent

"But you get your choice of toppings." "That's good!" "The toppings contain potassium benzoate... ...that's bad."

gkhartman 24 minutes ago | parent

...in mice.

embedding-shape 23 minutes ago | parent

Imagine how healthy mice in general could live, if they were able to read all these research papers about themselves.

zafka 12 minutes ago | parent

Now I am imagining a 501-C where school children are encouraged to read studies to mice. Children get better at reading technical papers, mice learn more about their options! Win Win!

rzzzt 9 minutes ago | parent

I, for one, welcome our future inmice overlords.

hagbard_c 4 minutes ago | parent

They already do in their own dimension, all that dying and running down the wrong track in those mazes is just to befuddle us silly hominids.

Source: https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Mice

gbil 23 minutes ago | parent

Did you read it at all?

> Notably, creatine uptake similarly boosted the activation and immunostimulatory function of human monocyte-derived DCs.

asdff 10 minutes ago | parent

As it turns out, no one lets you generate mutant human embryos with deficient creatine receptors, grow them up into adult humans, inject them with melanoma, euthanize them and harvest the tumor cell mass and bone marrow for analysis.

EA-3167 22 minutes ago | parent

Please remember that this is a study not the ads and pop-sci articles usually posted here. That means it’s meant to elucidate at most some biological pathways and not to present an overall recommendation. Maybe creatine has strong anti-tumor activity through one pathway and strongly tumor-promoting impacts elsewhere.

Please… just read it as the isolated and interesting insight into biology that it is. It’s a fascinating in vitro result that shows a potentially important role for creatinine in a certain immune response.

ortusdux 21 minutes ago | parent

Are there risks to creatine?

asdff 17 minutes ago | parent

It can make you hold more water weight so you should drink more water in response.

pow_ext 16 minutes ago | parent

None

HedonicEscal8r 16 minutes ago | parent

Essentially none. Creatine supplementation is a good idea for most people, especially vegans/vegetarians.

flossly 13 minutes ago | parent

Why especially those?

eknkc 11 minutes ago | parent

Nobody gets fired for supplementing vegans.

hobo123 10 minutes ago | parent

Because they lack all kinds of substances that meateaters get plenty of.

unethical_ban 10 minutes ago | parent

Not vouching for creatine, but in general, humans get some vital nutrients from animal consumption. Vegans have to take some B-vitamins for best health due to what they don't get from meat. I assume creatine is the same.

iamdev 8 minutes ago | parent

Because meat is the best source of creatine from diet.

hagbard_c 7 minutes ago | parent

Well, if vegetarians and those of the Vegan religion don't get enough creatine it is most likely related to them not partaking of an important source of the substance: meat.

dgacmu 4 minutes ago | parent

Your body can synthesize creatine, so it's not essential, but meat is a source of exogenous creatine and eating it results in higher stored creatine levels, which is slightly good for muscle power endurance in the ~5-15 second effort range. Supplementing produces slightly higher relative improvements in creatine levels in vegetarians and vegans than it does in people who eat meat.

luke5441 16 minutes ago | parent

I get severe cramping from it (reproducible). All I can find are papers about this being a myth and some reddit threads about other people having this.

andy_ppp 10 minutes ago | parent

Did you try different sources I do not trust some of the stuff out there and often wonder if these supplements aren’t just generic white powder…

er4hn 7 minutes ago | parent

I get this unless I drink a lot of water. About 48 fl oz seems to be the right amount for 10g creatine. Sometimes this needs to be combined with a light snack, like a handful of nuts.

kenhwang 5 minutes ago | parent

I get it too if I don't drink a lot more water. So did many people on my sports team.

Creatine binds to water (making less water available to your muscles) and allows your muscles to work harder (which makes them need more water). So if you're not drinking a lot more water when you're taking creatine, you will get cramps from either dehydration and/or muscle overuse.

But once you're past the loading phase for creatine and getting sufficient hydration, it's supposed to lessen cramps because the water bound to creatine also becomes available for use again as the creatine is used by the body.

colechristensen 15 minutes ago | parent

Excessively large doses make your stomach and perhaps your kidneys unhappy and supplements being lightly regulated there may be purity issues where the risk is what else is in it.

But it's pretty safe at recommended doses.

dilyevsky 14 minutes ago | parent

Worse beach looks

nkozyra 5 minutes ago | parent

Creatine causes intramuscular water increases, not subcutaneous. Doesn't actually have a negative impact here.

BunsanSpace 13 minutes ago | parent

Generally no, it's expensively studied and has had daily consumption to be safe for upto 5 years at least (studies haven't generally gone longer).

That being said some people do have adverse effects to supplementation, e.g. excessive water retention, bloating, stomach discomfort, &c.

So try it, if you have a bad reaction stop.

ddoolin 5 minutes ago | parent

Potentially lots poopies.

fy20 20 minutes ago | parent

Note that they gave the mice 10mg per day, which is around 3g per day for a 70kg human - i.e. a normal dose.

rgbrgb 16 minutes ago | parent

worth noting that there’s evidence both ways… tumor cells may like it too:

- Loo et al. 2015 found color cancer cells can use it as fuel and blocking the creatine cut metastasis in mice [0]

- zhang et al 20921 found it promoting mouse colon and breast cancer models [1]

not an expert in any way, but i’m guessing it depends on cancer type and there doesn’t seem to be human data either way.

[0]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25601461/

[1]: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2021.03.009

MrJagil 15 minutes ago | parent

Creatine related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48346947

(I regret posting that blog post, but the study is interesting)

dyauspitr 12 minutes ago | parent

So what’s the latest? That everyone should take creatine and GLP-1s?

solumos 10 minutes ago | parent

Adverse side effects of creatine are generally less severe than GLP-1s

creaturemachine 5 minutes ago | parent

With a peptide chaser.

ThouYS 12 minutes ago | parent

The whole creatine craze reminds me of Vitamin D a couple of years ago. Which also sounded harmless, but can go very wrong if not careful

BugsJustFindMe 9 minutes ago | parent

> but can go very wrong if not careful

This is vague and doesn't explain anything. Can you share any references that communicate what you're thinking about?

nkozyra 7 minutes ago | parent

They're talking about vitamin D, which accumulates due to being fat soluble and is indeed toxic at a certain level[1]

It became something of a panacea nutrient, recently around COVID.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_toxicity

drop_star 2 minutes ago | parent

I've also heard about it 'hardening' in the bloodstream and that you should really be taking it with K2 as well. This is anecdotal so someone please do more research than basing anything from this comment

nkozyra 9 minutes ago | parent

Unless you have specific issues, creatine is pretty easily excreted in excess, unlike fat-soluble vitamin D.

This doesn't mean you can just pound it, but for the most part it just becomes waste product.