140 points cramer4next 1 hour ago 131 comments
iamdelirium 56 minutes ago | parent
If I was Palantir or any other GOP aligned company, I would be completely against this. What's to stop a Democratic president from doing the same thing and destroying them?
mattnewton 53 minutes ago | parent
bpodgursky 51 minutes ago | parent
2OEH8eoCRo0 34 minutes ago | parent
cramer4next 51 minutes ago | parent
Ydarbleoj 43 minutes ago | parent
cramer4next 26 minutes ago | parent
sophrosyne42 26 minutes ago | parent
samudrijan 31 minutes ago | parent
Dems still subsidize O&G but they have other constituents they need to pay lip service to.
Banking and finance own both parties.
SpicyLemonZest 21 minutes ago | parent
chrisjj 47 minutes ago | parent
sippingabonedry 20 minutes ago | parent
ygjb 15 minutes ago | parent
They are not turning a profit, and aside from enterprise token billing, every other offering they have is a loss leader. In order to flip that around they need to drive down the cost of inference significantly, either through massive compute improvements, more efficient or lower cost models, and either one lowers the barrier to entry for local and/or private cloud inference for open models. The moat established by the expertise in model training is effectively dissolving as they approach recursive self improvement because any mechanism that prevents model distillation effectively reduces the quality and utility of the models, so each improved model makes their competitors better by default if they want to realize those gains.
The reason for the pivot to control and regulation seems to be more about erecting an artificial moat in their market, and having these technologies controlled or highlighted as supply chain risks will continue to drive investments in alternatives, especially in other countries where data sovereignty and domestic tech has become a priority given the last decade of the US dominated tech industry.
I don't think that AI is going to go away, but I think the future of AI in the next several years looks alot like massive overfunded foundational model providers collapsing, their employees launching dozens or hundreds of direct competitors, and the leading hyperscalers buying up datacenter capacity the way they bought up dark fiber 20 years ago.
_ink_ 45 minutes ago | parent
doctorwho42 45 minutes ago | parent
I doubt that is going to change anytime soon. They are a private entity, so they can manage and change their primary system any way they want.
ajross 32 minutes ago | parent
Sarbanes-Oxley? Dodd-Frank? ACA? Now I'm sure you (like, every other living human) has a ton of nitpicks and criticism of bills like that. But they're real and they passed and they're largely-to-wholely partisan creations of the Democratic policy apparatus (SOX looked very bipartisan and was passed under Bush, but the actual bill was written mostly by democratic staffers).
I mean, fine, you'd like different regulation. But they're responsible for basically all the corporate regulation active in the US regime.
Bothsidesism is a very poor tool for this particular argument. Work with your allies, please.
reliabilityguy 23 minutes ago | parent
How’s ACA hard-hitting on corporations?
The 15/20 rules is what resulted in recorder profits in health insurance business, how’s this anti-corporate?
lotsofpulp 22 minutes ago | parent
If their profits are so good, their shares would be worth owning.
Could it be because their profit margins are actually terrible (3% if lucky), and they have to get the price of their product approved by 50 different state government employees, and the federal government constantly changes their customer’s subsidies making revenue and expenses extremely volatile and difficult to forecast?
eli 8 minutes ago | parent
If you're looking for policies to blame for insurance companies having a rough 2025-2026, look to the Republican-led efforts cap Medicare fees and alter eligibility requirements.
lotsofpulp 7 minutes ago | parent
https://dqydj.com/sp-500-return-calculator/
https://dqydj.com/stock-return-calculator/
Also, these businesses are competing to sell a completely fungible commodity good with tons of non profits like Kaiser Permanente, HCSC, Cambia, Independence Blue Cross, and many others. It makes no sense to expect those businesses to be able to earn any decent profit margin when their competition only needs 0%.
ajross 20 minutes ago | parent
"You must sell insurance to sick people!", "I don't wanna!", "I don't care, the law now says you must."
I mean, the whole insurance industry had spent the better part of a century (basically its whole existence) denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, and the ACA fixed it via fiat.
Not only is it clearly "hard-hitting", I'd argue it's probably the single most "hard-hitting" invasive change to corporate regulation of the post-war era. Certainly it is in terms of the amount of money involved in the affected market.
> how’s this anti-corporate?
And this is where the rub is. You're not saying that your desired regulatory structure is something different than existing proposals, you're demanding that your government engage in behavior that is expressly "anti" whatever you perceive "corporate" interests to be.
That's not democracy, that's just warfare. You have enemies and you want to win. And the problem there is that the structure of our government requires compromise.
travoc 7 minutes ago | parent
lotsofpulp 1 minute ago | parent
https://landline.media/affordable-care-act-tax-penalties-end...
>The penalty for not having an ACA-compliant plan or forgoing coverage in 2018 is the greater of $695 per adult and $347.50 per child for a maximum of $2,085 or 2.5 percent of adjusted household income. The percentage penalty is capped at an amount equal to the national average premium for a bronze plan, the minimum coverage available by law
bushido 10 minutes ago | parent
ajross 3 minutes ago | parent
And it is true, that it was signed by Clinton. But it was otherwise an entirely partisan bill passed with exclusively republican votes. All 44 democrats voted nay.
Now, given that, do you really feel that that's a supporting argument to the upthread contention that Democrats are a corporate-dominated party and not interested in regulation?
ipython 26 minutes ago | parent
reenorap 15 minutes ago | parent
We, the people, are on the other side.
Braxton1980 12 minutes ago | parent
This is such a tired argument that over simplifies an entire group of people on both sides into a single entity that happens to be the same.
kryogen1c 15 minutes ago | parent
Oh? Thats why Biden tried to run in 2024? Because democrats procedurally try to elect obviously incapable presidents?
malicka 11 minutes ago | parent
qlte 9 minutes ago | parent
Incumbent Presidents in the US almost always run for reelection to a second term, that's the normal expected outcome with vanishingly few exceptions in the last century.
Braxton1980 13 minutes ago | parent
UncleOxidant 11 minutes ago | parent
I suspect this is changing. The DSA branch especially wants all contracts with Palantir eliminated.
garciasn 9 minutes ago | parent
s/Democrats/all US politicians/ FTFY
shimman 23 minutes ago | parent
infamouscow 50 minutes ago | parent
ripped_britches 27 minutes ago | parent
petcat 48 minutes ago | parent
Isn't this basically what Anthropic wanted?
sippingabonedry 39 minutes ago | parent
It boils down to inexperience with a healthy dose of delusion on Anthropic's part.
hardbass 35 minutes ago | parent
hiddencost 33 minutes ago | parent
kittikitti 27 minutes ago | parent
Side note, the Anthropic bots are astroturfing the comments.
hardbass 26 minutes ago | parent
lukewarm707 20 minutes ago | parent
by analogy it would be like the us military renting all m4 carbines from a political party.
anthropic treat customers very badly. they have claude lecture the user about the moral law according to anthropic. they change the product all the time. they have safety refusals to degrade functionality, they have mandatory logging so they spy on how it is used.
it's unusable for a serious application.
on top of that it is unsurprising that a big tyrant does not take well to a little tyrant.
hardbass 13 minutes ago | parent
lukewarm707 9 minutes ago | parent
it is a supply chain risk, so they don't want it in the supply chain.
that's logical.
hardbass 6 minutes ago | parent
ilikehurdles 55 seconds ago | parent
If Lockheed Martin disabled weapons systems when it discovered the Air Force using its fighters over Iranian airspace based on Lockheed's ideological grounds, I'm pretty sure they would be labeled a supply chain risk. What is the issue here?
ilikehurdles 6 minutes ago | parent
IX-103 6 minutes ago | parent
john_strinlai 24 minutes ago | parent
if this is more than "people i disagree with are commenting", you should be messaging hn@ycombinator.com rather than writing it as a side note in your comment.
hardbass 23 minutes ago | parent
kittikitti 16 minutes ago | parent
kingstnap 14 minutes ago | parent
You mention inexperience. Historically how many US companies can you name that have been historically named supply chain risks?
hiddencost 35 minutes ago | parent
VWWHFSfQ 31 minutes ago | parent
So yes obviously defense contractors are forbidden to use it.
tmvphil 23 minutes ago | parent
VWWHFSfQ 12 minutes ago | parent
The reasons why are incidental to that requirement for defense contractors.
Jtsummers 5 minutes ago | parent
What are you talking about? That's nowhere close to a true statement.
rayiner 8 minutes ago | parent
Jtsummers 26 minutes ago | parent
No, it does not mean that. I don't know why people have been making this claim. If you work for a company, let's call it X, and your work is not DOD related, let's say you work on a social media service, then X has no reason (from this designation) to prevent you from using Anthropic, it will not impact their defense contracts at all.
SpicyLemonZest 16 minutes ago | parent
Jtsummers 7 minutes ago | parent
This designation means Athropic's systems can't be used in DOD work, but many companies that work with the DOD also do work outside that. That separate work is not restricted with respect to the use of Anthropic's systems. Repeating a lie as if it were true is just dumb, it helps spread that lie.
HarHarVeryFunny 33 minutes ago | parent
hardbass 28 minutes ago | parent
shimman 20 minutes ago | parent
We've forgotten what it means to run a society, we're allowed to change rules how we see fit whenever we want to. Only the elites exercise this power, but people have it too.
hardbass 17 minutes ago | parent
ThunderSizzle 20 minutes ago | parent
It's not like Anthropic will be nationalized any more than the bankrupted auto companies of 2008.
hardbass 18 minutes ago | parent
rayiner 9 minutes ago | parent
stusmall 18 minutes ago | parent
rayiner 10 minutes ago | parent
0xdeadbeefbabe 5 minutes ago | parent
theptip 10 minutes ago | parent
Anthropic’s position is also known as “having terms of service”.
To be clear the existing, signed ToS terms that Trump balked at were:
1. No mass surveillance of US civilians - illegal but we have all read the Snowden papers.
2. Fully unmanned kill chains on autonomous weapons - Anthropic have even stated they will support this eventually, they just didn’t think their models were ready and didn’t want the obvious, inevitable blowback.
The DoD is within its rights to cancel the contract if it doesn’t like the terms that it previously signed.
fnordpiglet 28 minutes ago | parent
wyager 15 minutes ago | parent
tcdent 15 minutes ago | parent
Which sounds sensible on the surface, until you realize that all military organizations have extensive experience with that exact question, and have spent centuries refining their practices. Deferring that to a private company is actually a major regression and a concerning role to pass on to the public regardless.
FWIW I am not pro military, but it's a prominent part of human culture and not going away anytime soon. I do understand the nature of professions, however, and only one of these groups has made the interpretation of this question their specialization.
daveidol 5 minutes ago | parent
I guess my opinion would really depend on the exact wording and details of the arrangement. Lots of people jumping in with strong stances based on pretty limited details.
hardbass 51 seconds ago | parent
kittikitti 36 minutes ago | parent
majorchord 25 minutes ago | parent
scottyah 12 minutes ago | parent
Lol wtf, do you think nobody here knows how to use git? this is like a Fox News comment, you are not a developer and are trying to spread fear because a word was used jokingly. "git blame" is just a diff tool.
You cannot use git blame to cause conflict.
hardbass 9 minutes ago | parent
HarHarVeryFunny 36 minutes ago | parent
timcobb 34 minutes ago | parent
that's the mobster-loyalty mentality, and it's not how successful (read: desirable for the most people) governments function
p-e-w 23 minutes ago | parent
pixl97 16 minutes ago | parent
What the orange turd is going is rather petty bullshit in a market where many options exist.
all_factz 8 minutes ago | parent
ajross 29 minutes ago | parent
But that's not at issue here. Obviously everyone agrees that the Pentagon can issue RFQ's to whatever specifications it wants. They can buy whatever they want, for the same reason that you or I are free to sell whatever we want.
The subject at hand is an attempt to use national security regulatory power to coerce Anthropic into selling a product it doesn't want to sell.
HarHarVeryFunny 4 minutes ago | parent
It would be naive to think that a private company could deny the government access to any tech if they want it for military or surveillance etc usage. In this case the government isn't forcing Anthropic to do it, they have alternatives and are perhaps making an example of Anthropic for refusing.
You could even make a case that the "supply chain risk" designation DOES make sense. If Anthropic are opposed to certain uses of their software, then doesn't that potentially impact companies that are part of the supply chain as well?
prometheus1992 21 minutes ago | parent
OpenAI has hacked several prominent entities and is allowed to do business as usual but Anthropic putting guardrails on the military's usage of AI is the national security threat while Pentagon itself said that over reliance on AI lead to that attack on school in Minab.
I have also learned that OpenAI's president is a big maga donor and now I am thinking of cancelling my OpenAI membership todau and signing up with Anthropic again.
pixl97 19 minutes ago | parent
CamperBob2 17 minutes ago | parent
I get downvoted every time I point out that this was entirely rational. This, downvoters, is why it was entirely rational. Does that mean I agree with it? Of course not. But investments are made to pay off, and this one certainly has for OpenAI.
UncleOxidant 14 minutes ago | parent
CamperBob2 10 minutes ago | parent
Which if anything seems worse.
1: https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/867947/o...
bigyabai 17 minutes ago | parent
multiplegeorges 7 minutes ago | parent
cogman10 2 minutes ago | parent
blitzar 5 minutes ago | parent
salawat 43 seconds ago | parent
enraged_camel 16 minutes ago | parent
paul7986 14 minutes ago | parent
EDIT: Oh damn getting downvoted. It looks like Meta Glasses are hated as MAGA maybe Zuckerberg should call them MAGA glasses ha
drop_star 2 minutes ago | parent
gyanchawdhary 5 minutes ago | parent
I can 100% assume you showed that same courage and moral fortitude by quitting X after Elon acquired it. Respect!
prometheus1992 1 minute ago | parent
Chance-Device 21 minutes ago | parent
For all the downsides of losing the business of government contractors, it really would hold Anthropic to their stated values: they’ll never develop AI controlled weapons on this blacklist.
ctippett 18 minutes ago | parent
romellem 14 minutes ago | parent
I suspect this will be reversed en banc.
Anthropic’s argument is really clear and easy to understand: we can’t simultaneously be a supply chain risk and also be a company the DoD demands we change our policies so they can use our models without restrictions.
ApolloFortyNine 8 minutes ago | parent
This is like a pen manufacturer not wanting their pens used to sign drone strike orders, now the military needs to have a special box of pens that don't have stipulations attached. With AI usage it would be the same thing except applied to entire product chains. It seems like it would just add more complexity to operations.
You can agree with the rules anthropic wanted, but having rules set by a private company at all that apply to the military does seem fair for the military to object to.
>The Department reasonably feared that Anthropic might manipulate Claude’s design to prevent it from performing national-security functions that the Department deems contractually authorized and necessary
Though they'd probably put the DoD on the cybersecurity whitelist today, the very idea of the claude whitelists for certain functionality already exists and is being used by them today.
lukewarm707 4 minutes ago | parent
however anthropic also believes it is some kind of entity unto itself so it is not at all reliable.