225 points Eric_Gullichsen 2 hours ago 107 comments
Eric_Gullichsen 2 hours ago | parent
triyambakam 1 hour ago | parent
Eric_Gullichsen 30 minutes ago | parent
TheRoque 28 minutes ago | parent
NDlurker 1 hour ago | parent
Did anything progress past tech demos?
Eric_Gullichsen 19 minutes ago | parent
tims33 53 minutes ago | parent
what 33 minutes ago | parent
999900000999 47 minutes ago | parent
I’m in a small game dev group and I very much enjoy seeing how older engineers tackle problems.
Eric_Gullichsen 32 minutes ago | parent
femto 43 minutes ago | parent
I don't know your situation in life, but if your experience is anything like mine I reckon you've probably made the right decision.
Joel_Mckay 26 minutes ago | parent
You were lucky, as most university contracts clearly state they own all associated IP created while working on campus. They could have legally given you $0, and end of employment notice. These things can get messy fast. =3
femto 14 minutes ago | parent
Yep. I was on a fixed term contract, which had expired, even though I was still working on the project well after its expiration. It would have been interesting to argue that any IP assignment expired with the contract. As you said: messy. As I judged: not worth it.
mapontosevenths 42 minutes ago | parent
Any chance it was THE Vallejo where Alan Watts lived, and the grateful dead once played? Or maybe she was just named in homage?
Either way, it's very cool! Thanks for the great read.
Eric_Gullichsen 34 minutes ago | parent
mapontosevenths 21 minutes ago | parent
I imagine that living in a place with that sort of history was the kind of experience one can't really convey in a few words online, but if you have written about it (or intend to) I would certainly love to read more.
kmoser 11 minutes ago | parent
goodmythical 1 hour ago | parent
OP was not given all of the shares earned at the time decades ago and didn't realize that they should've been payed out, but after engaging in a lawsuit realized that the court would likely not grant the case give the statute of limitations.
Kinda like all the Sony game 'owners' not carefully reasing the legally binding contracts they're always signing realizing that they are not in fact purchasing a gauranteed lifetime access to the game.
fblp 1 hour ago | parent
klausa 1 hour ago | parent
Whether they "earned" them is disputable — the offer letter specifies one vesting schedule (25% every year), the "cover sheet" from the options agreement specifies other (25% every _quarter_).
So — the OP got the shares he was promised in the original offer letter; but later discovered that some of the documents he later got implied that the vesting schedule should be accelerated compared to what he agreed to.
I think that is probably the funniest way possible to earn a billion dollars; but whether he's "owed" that money/shares, is... up for a debate.
lquist 1 hour ago | parent
whall6 1 hour ago | parent
manwe150 1 hour ago | parent
s0rce 1 hour ago | parent
al_borland 9 minutes ago | parent
binlog 1 hour ago | parent
acchow 59 minutes ago | parent
jcheng 55 minutes ago | parent
binlog 55 minutes ago | parent
Beijinger 34 minutes ago | parent
Normally this is a right to buy at a given price. If he was billed for it, then there is very little chance NVIDIA can weasel they way out ot it. I suspect he never paid for the shares.
phonon 1 hour ago | parent
whall6 1 hour ago | parent
tocs3 1 hour ago | parent
phonon 58 minutes ago | parent
chillfox 26 minutes ago | parent
whall6 1 hour ago | parent
Legend2440 1 hour ago | parent
windexh8er 50 minutes ago | parent
mayoff 30 minutes ago | parent
binlog 1 hour ago | parent
raldi 45 minutes ago | parent
binlog 37 minutes ago | parent
> Breach of a written contract: 4 years from the date the contract was broken.
Which part do you think is debatable?
piotrkaminski 28 minutes ago | parent
> Sometimes, if the problem (like the injury or damage) was not discovered right away, the statute of limitations generally starts counting from the date the problem was discovered or should reasonably have been discovered, whichever comes first.
raincole 20 minutes ago | parent
yeukhon 11 minutes ago | parent
pclmulqdq 1 hour ago | parent
whall6 54 minutes ago | parent
gamblor956 25 minutes ago | parent
Firms can be sanctioned for pursuing cases knowing the statute of limitations has expired.
pclmulqdq 6 minutes ago | parent
tgsovlerkhgsel 53 minutes ago | parent
That was my first thought as well.
edoceo 12 minutes ago | parent
Source: cannabis and Law&Order reruns.
JumpCrisscross 37 minutes ago | parent
What OP has here is a license to go on a fishing expedition through NVIDIA.
bragr 15 minutes ago | parent
1. Time barring is pretty iron clad. Sucks for the author but consider the alternative where anyone could sue anyone after any period of time.
2. If a court did find in favor of the plaintiff, the court would be more likely to award the 90s cash value of the stock, plus interest, rather than awarding the shares or current market value (damages being how we was actually wronged in the 90s rather than speculating what he might have done with the stock to present)
3. Given 1 and 2, Nvidia is unlikely to make a big settlement, meaning an expensive and risky trial.
Which brings us to hidden reason #4: nobody would pay that much for the rights so it probably isn't worth the author's time. He'd still be the man at the center of the suit: depositions, testimony, cross examination, records subpoenas...
slopinthebag 1 hour ago | parent
throw03172019 1 hour ago | parent
Vaslo 50 minutes ago | parent
bpodgursky 39 minutes ago | parent
what 39 minutes ago | parent
imadierich 1 hour ago | parent
So the dispute is basically over whether NVIDIA incorrectly prevented a guy from buying $468.75 worth of additional founder-era stock, which through NVIDIA's subsequent growth and splits became approximately $1 billion of stock thirty years later.
eadwu 1 hour ago | parent
It seems like both you didn't caring about it during vesting or maybe they did a typo since it seems like you were vested over 4 years normally and the offer is over 4 years?
Anyway if someone did this to me this is pretty much grounds for an irreparable relationship. Though I guess it was worth the attempt for $1b.
OsrsNeedsf2P 55 minutes ago | parent
If someone tried to claim what was contractually theirs?
eadwu 48 minutes ago | parent
Of course, contracts are legally binding, but that's completely different from my perception / evaluation of someone - if the mutual understanding was over 4 years and then 30 years later you find the typo and come back to bite me then yes it is 100% an irreparable relationship.
Yes I would think better of them if they came back to bite if NVIDIA was a penny stock but probably nobody would bite them back if they found out it was worth $100 instead of $1B.
To be clear, the grant is the legally binding document regardless of intent (initial offer + vesting seems to imply 4 years), I would eat the typo if it was 30 years ago and chalk it off as a learned mistake (assuming it wasn't company altering), although I would still think less of them for fleecing.
Joel_Mckay 34 minutes ago | parent
A bit of cash can turn folks into awful people, and some contracts are just a obfuscated legal con of the naive. =3
eadwu 19 minutes ago | parent
I'm just differentiating between the legal correctness and personal opinion/viewpoints on the matter.
Regardless of whether you are legally correct or not isn't really the crux of the issue for me, heck maybe Jensen doesn't even care about a billion given everything's he's minting (who knows though).
I was only talking from personal standing, in your stated cases or if I was in this position (I made some assumptions regarding the case), it would be a breaches of good faith and I would find it hard to trust them in a partnership ever again.
Only my POV, maybe the folks at the B level don't care about this as much since they are starting to fling Ts around. I can see how some people wouldn't really care, i.e. treating them as a freelancer and main objective is getting something done, but on a personal basis probably wouldn't trust them (say on personal matters that are company defining).
isatty 59 minutes ago | parent
You’re not the only one who want to see this go somewhere.
ValentineC 48 minutes ago | parent
wewewedxfgdf 58 minutes ago | parent
These matters are not purely legal nor purely right and wrong.
They are personal and political too.
This is a fight you should have fought.
whall6 51 minutes ago | parent
jLaForest 50 minutes ago | parent
dbg31415 47 minutes ago | parent
Where did it come from? Well, I was curious how Bitcoin worked, so I set up a little mining rig and let it run at night on my work computer. So, other than my time, which I think I did on work's time, and the power, which I think I used work's power... I saw it as a free cup of coffee.
Honestly, I was just so happy to find a booth at a convention that actually took Bitcoin that I didn't mind the crappy exchange rate.
But anyway, I don't think regret is a particularly useful thing to hold onto. You can regret things you did, and you can regret things you didn't do. Either way, there's nothing you can do about it. It feels like baggage. Hold on to too much of it and you sink. You have to find a way to rise above it and keep moving forward. If you don't, you'll drown.
I say that as someone who learned this lesson the hard way.
I spent 3+ years in a legal battle with an insurance company and their contractor that ultimately cost me more than $500,000. I was right. Period. I had been wronged. Period. The contractor and insurance company both lied and I had ample documentation of them doing so, and doing shoddy work. What I was asking for was completely reasonable. But who cares? That's not how the courts or the legal system work.
What I learned from the process was that most people just get screwed over when they go up against big companies. And it's not even close. I'd guess something like 75% of people who get into a fight with an insurance company end up losing -- and it's probably higher than that if you factor in the people who simply give up. Eventually, you have to decide whether continuing to fight is worth what it's costing you.
There will always be another "I almost caught the fish!" story to tell. Life is long. Learn from the mistakes, let go of the things you can't change, and do your best to keep moving forward.
Some situations just suck. Best not to think about it them too much.
icepush 25 minutes ago | parent
reticulates 43 minutes ago | parent
I had a similar experience although over a shorter time horizon. I was in a dispute with a corporation which prompted me to pore over every word in every previously signed agreement. I discovered, due to an obvious typo in a stock option agreement, more options had vested than had been intended. After some pushback, they eventually relented and awarded me the options.
Given the amount of money involved, it was worth engaging lawyers to see if NVIDIA would pay you some money to save the hassle of dealing with it, but there is and was zero prospect of this ever being awarded in your favor by a court since the options expired.
kevmo314 42 minutes ago | parent
reticulates 41 minutes ago | parent
They exercised 15,625 options of the 25,000. The OP sent $781.25 to NVIDIA. The remaining 9,375 options were not exercised, they expired 90 days after April 16th 1996.
Only in hindsight, 30 years later, has the OP realized that the other 9,375 had vested due to ambiguous wording in the agreement. The article is about the 9,375 that were not exercised.
donbox 36 minutes ago | parent
Eric_Gullichsen 25 minutes ago | parent
bradly 5 minutes ago | parent
Eric_Gullichsen 38 minutes ago | parent
Imustaskforhelp 19 minutes ago | parent
but aside from that, a question I and many are wondering,
1.) is there a surefire guarantee that the case would be dismissed by court or that there is just a low chance of it being done.
Because if Nvidia knows this, then they are saying so sue us as a way to do just that (deterring you), but if the statute of limitations don't particularly apply though (as some have suggested here), then isn't litigation still a good path?
Also, instead of litigating with your own money, I imagine that there must be a market for cases like these who can litigate for you and win a portion of the money as well without requiring litigation fees from you. (A lot of hackernews comments are about this)
At best: you actually win money. At worst: you don't (but that's where you currently are), so perhaps there's still a reason to try.
IANAL and you have contacted top lawyers, (so please correct me if I am wrong as I usually am.)
2: how do you feel about the whole situation? I imagine not everyone has sort of even the possibility of becoming almost an billionaire. Also, do you believe that there could be other people like you as well where because of some technicality/(statute of limitations), they too didn't get the money/stocks?
3: What are the life lessons that you would like to give to the next generation?
It's still so impressive to me that I can just ask questions to you on hackernews just like that, thanks for taking the time to read it and have a nice day, kind sir!
Eric_Gullichsen 5 minutes ago | parent
jonas21 33 minutes ago | parent
If he had held on to those, they would be worth even more than the additional 9,375 shares he was entitled to -- about $1.7 billion according to his math.
My guess is that he probably sold them when they were worth a lot less then they are now, and would have done the same with the remaining shares too.
jasonwatkinspdx 32 minutes ago | parent
I don't have any inside info about this case obviously, but it's clear Nvidia would have ample motive to try to claw back whatever they could as mid 1996 was when they made their pivot after the disaster.
Again, not throwing around accusations here, just saying it may not be as cut and dried as "it was just an oops but everyone forgot about it for 30 years."
khazhoux 30 minutes ago | parent
I learned a long time ago that everyone has a story of missed mega-riches in Silicon Valley. I have a few of my own :-)
pugworthy 20 minutes ago | parent
andy_ppp 22 minutes ago | parent
merek 17 minutes ago | parent
Why would an American working in software in the mid 90s expatriate to Tonga, a tiny island nation, population ~100k, virtually no tech industry, with little or no internet back then? (assuming Eric is American).
Maybe a govt IT contract, but it sounds at odds to "working on various internet startup schemes".
Barbing 13 minutes ago | parent
(Retract the cheating dig if not applicable. Make it in the first place b/c I’m bummed when folks who make their money thanks to a country’s infra, laws, etc. don’t pay their fair share, at least in those cases when there’s so much you can even give back half and have immense riches.)
Eric_Gullichsen 2 minutes ago | parent
avazhi 15 minutes ago | parent
Still massively sucks though. Not quite as bad as the guy who bought two pizzas for 10,000 bitcoin but still a situation that would be impossible to ever get over.
omgJustTest 10 minutes ago | parent
When someone dismisses your interpretation it serves to understand it well.
Additionally: A contractual mistake would likely not return specific performance (stock) unless special conditions were met.
For example: a company makes a stock mistake, you observe that at the time it happens, but then do nothing until you see the stock increase in value. Company could assert you _were_ due the stock but the value of that stock is determined by the time-of-breach and they return you $.
Unless you had a substantial claim to voting interest.