166 points zazuke 52 minutes ago 100 comments
chinathrow 39 minutes ago | parent
Enough, already.
Shank 31 minutes ago | parent
davidclark 21 minutes ago | parent
kraftman 38 minutes ago | parent
runarberg 38 minutes ago | parent
I am gonna appeal to Occam’s razor here and say, the integral variable here is AI, and the only variable you need to know is AI. The problem is AI.
bengold14 37 minutes ago | parent
verdverm 31 minutes ago | parent
I have strong disagreement because it sounds like, by analogy or proxy, we have also "solved writing"
glimshe 28 minutes ago | parent
Saying that LLMs have "reduced the cost of coding" would be boring. And using your analogy, pencils, typewriters and computers have all reduced the cost of writing, but writers are still around.
grumbel 23 minutes ago | parent
You might still need to nudge the LLM in the right direction or stop it from going off weird tangents, but none of that involves touching actual code yourself.
verdverm 15 minutes ago | parent
Ai can push a lot of keys very fast, but not always the right ones
if they need to be reminded to follow the coding standards, visible in the very code they are working on, what has been solved?
gslepak 26 minutes ago | parent
They haven't solved coding.
Programming is an art form. And the better you get at it, the better kinds of ideas (abstractions) you can create.
This is something today's AI cannot do.
If everyone were to permanently switch to AI for software development, software innovation would cease.
verdverm 23 minutes ago | parent
KeplerBoy 25 minutes ago | parent
At least that's how I experience it. In the before times each non-trivial code change had a real opportunity cost as it would easily consume two days until I could even estimate whether this is worth looking deeper into.
ActorNightly 25 minutes ago | parent
For example, nobody on our team writes manual code anymore, we have basically set up a harness where an engineer types up the requirements for a change, the system implements it given certain constraints, we have automated unit and integration tests that are ran, and if any errors pop up, they get fed back into the loop until fixed.
But to do that, you need to actually know what you are doing - you have to have good instructions to keep the agents in check and not start making mods outside of their bounds especially when the issue is with a dependant service that is causing errors.
verdverm 20 minutes ago | parent
To solve something, there must be a defined problem, what is the problem that was solved. Or perhaps it is just "coding is solved" is the turn of phrase de jour be ause we haven't yet found a more succinct and accurate way to describe the paradigm shift
When it comes to non technical people using Ai to build things on code, the outcomes are on average pretty poor, which i see as evidence that the driver and their expertise behind the Ai matters a lot. A notable example is Terence Tao's conversation with ChatGPT, us math normies could never have done that. The same applies to coding agents ime
sampullman 18 minutes ago | parent
I think "solved coding" is taking it too far, but for many projects, the mechanical aspect of it has been removed or reduced greatly.
LLMs will have a much harder time "solving writing", because they cannot develop their own style and so are severely limited, creatively. This is less important for coding.
Avicebron 27 minutes ago | parent
visarga 12 minutes ago | parent
This time I add another definition "when you can own it".
Terr_ 26 minutes ago | parent
Except a little worse, since they were raised alone in a library, act mostly the same, and have harsh limits on personal growth.
cmrdporcupine 25 minutes ago | parent
Which is really the same problem with coding.
The agentic model of it just taking over and doing everything is poisonous to effective long term team work.
We're well past the point where it's about the quality of the work they produce. It's the way they integrate (or rather, don't) into human practices.
jplusequalt 15 minutes ago | parent
My team recently spent two weeks on a wild goose chase trying to figure out why TensorFlow Lite was generating nonsensical OpenCL kernels. Well it turns out that LLVM had a few bugs in the RISC-V assembly for our platform that was leading to silent garbage. It took combing through assembly dumps, hexdumps, a lot of pain staking debugging, and going through the TensorFlow Lite source code to to track this down.
In your opinion, if code is the wrong abstraction to be working at, how do you approach this scenario?
simonw 36 minutes ago | parent
I don't think you need to review every line of code, but you absolutely do need to be able to describe how the system works and its high level structure.
As is so often the case with coding agents, having experience as a tech lead or engineering manager really helps here. You are responsible for a large system that has been worked on by multiple different collaborator (both human and agentic). You need to be able to make smart, informed decisions about that system, and talk with credibility to other stakeholders about what it can and cannot do and sensible next steps for the project.
curt15 32 minutes ago | parent
verdverm 26 minutes ago | parent
Ai can help you learn if you are intentional about it.
simonw 16 minutes ago | parent
We have never had as abundant a supply of tools to help us learn our craft. I expect that many people will thrive.
People who are a bit lazy and prone to cheating will be able to hurt themselves even more.
jplusequalt 23 minutes ago | parent
I just don't see how you can truly reason about a system without delving into code. Tests aren't enough, running the software isn't enough, high level system architecture isn't enough.
>As is so often the case with coding agents, having experience as a tech lead or engineering manager really helps here ... You need to be able to make smart, informed decisions about that system
In my experience, engineering managers are too detached from the system to accurately reason about the system. Tech leads on the other hand usually can given enough time, but they tend to defer judgement to senior ICs on the team who are more familiar with the code.
Point is: there's no way to have your cake and eat it to. You either read the fucking code and keep a mental model of how the system works in your head, or you have an overstated confidence in your ability to reason about the system (and this has been a problem well before LLMs).
simonw 15 minutes ago | parent
softwaredoug 35 minutes ago | parent
benzible 35 minutes ago | parent
binary0010 32 minutes ago | parent
wuliwong 34 minutes ago | parent
I know this is being hyperbolic but I thought this was an odd post to include. I've met plenty of data engineers that don't have great knowledge of the business/product and SWEs that do have that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
zero_shift 34 minutes ago | parent
The code change itself doesn't specifically matter. But suffice to say, it was about an AI feature in one of our products.
The code was stamped by Claude driven by a prompt. The prompt was for a ticket generated with the Atlassian AI integration. Atlassian had digested docs made with AI. The docs came from strategy memos I'm 90% sure were written entirely by Claude.
The strategy was chosen by management at the urging of exec leadership. The execs now communicate mostly via AI written memos. I do not know how they make decisions, but they reference tech influencers, market conditions, customer expectations.
This gave me pause. Who had actually made the decision then? Arguably there has been several layers of human review, but the actual source of the decision was hard to pin down.
We were not building the feature because we wanted it. We were building it because we thought other people expected it.
Perhaps reflecting on the state of the market, I thought, could indicate who was actually in control.
Where do investor and customer expectations come from in 2026? It is very murky, at least in tech. There appears to be hype. Some hype comes from true believers, some comes from cynics. But both respond to market incentives that reward bigger and bigger claims.
Where does the market's "action" come from? What is the driver?
Investors do not really seem to understand what the tech is or its limitations. Some are passive operators. Others are just responding to the overall froth and speculation in the market - which becomes a runaway feedback cycle.
This left me lost.
Nobody in this ecosystem, I thought, is actually in control here.
Nobody is actually orienting work and action to real, concrete goals. It's all based on speculation and anxiety about the future.
So it is not only that nobody understands what the code does. It is that we cannot, or at least I cannot, explain the motivation. There doesn't seem to "be" any form of "intention" in this environment.
It has all been hollowed out, replaced either be inscrutable machines, or inscrutable incentives.
Ironically it rather resembles the kind of "misaligned" superintelligence we are supposed to be avoiding.
BOOSTERHIDROGEN 18 minutes ago | parent
visarga 16 minutes ago | parent
ashleyn 13 minutes ago | parent
Question from someone written in AI? Just answer it in AI and send it back. What was it actually about - who cares? Bug comes in? Post the jira link in claude and don't even bother prompting anything else. If something critically breaks - well, eh, we'll deal with it then. FIRE (early retirement), a prediction their layoff is inevitable, and investing aggressively so you can finally escape actually working are often invoked in the same breath. Everyone feels like they're just trying to punch the drywall and grab as much copper wire out of the walls as they can until they're finally let go and/or the whole company fails.
There's a great deal of nihilism and cynicism in the industry currently, and it feels like LLMs are just greatly enabling it. Where you would've done a halfassed job previously, you'd now do an unchecked AI job.
sarchertech 9 minutes ago | parent
If that happens on a large enough scale those investments won’t be worth much.
yearesadpeople 13 minutes ago | parent
techpression 13 minutes ago | parent
AI has become the thing you do, and what you do it with, to achieve it. It's a self-fulfilling chicken that is an egg that is a chicken.
saadn92 12 minutes ago | parent
It bothers me to no end when I get an AI written response, especially from the executive team or any one of my co-workers
wholinator2 5 minutes ago | parent
cess11 9 minutes ago | parent
Except for the enterprise customer and at enterprise prices.
epgui 8 minutes ago | parent
Data can describe to you what exists. But it can’t tell you what you value.
What you describe is people who can’t tell the difference, and who let the machine (data) make the value judgments.
meowface 33 minutes ago | parent
You can still know things and get force multiplication out of LLMs, if you are disciplined and caring enough. In practice, most people won't be. And you can't force other people to be. But you can force yourself to be.
jborden13 5 minutes ago | parent
> You can still know things and get force multiplication out of StackOverflow, if you are disciplined and caring enough. In practice, most people won't be. And you can't force other people to be. But you can force yourself to be.
ramsaybolton 33 minutes ago | parent
827a 32 minutes ago | parent
The labs saw this early, and thus many roles at the labs are "Member of Technical Staff". That's the future for every software team. You're not a software engineer anymore, but you're also not a PM, nor a designer. Think horizontal slices, not vertical: Every human's responsibility is to leverage AI to be an expert on everything necessary to deliver some vertical slice of the business.
glouwbug 23 minutes ago | parent
glouwbug 31 minutes ago | parent
It boggles me we completely forgot that the world operated like this just 4 years ago
breadzeppelin__ 27 minutes ago | parent
cmrdporcupine 16 minutes ago | parent
And I don't think it was ever necessary to go to the point where people just gave up authorship. These were choices made by adopting the "I'll do everything for you" agentic "harness" model that shipped with Claude Code but it was never inevitable.
e.g. we completely dropped fill-in-the-middle completion OG CoPilot auto completion model. That combined AI authorship with a human always in the mix and I actually really enjoyed it. It's just that the models involved were pretty stupid. We totally could have had IDE / shell / tooling integration that kept people in the driver's seat while automating parts of the drudgery away. Instead what we got was a simple chat loop with "oh, whatever, you go do it" being the ultimate result. Cuz, you'll totally review everything after and understand it, right?
The things should end by quizzing you on what was just made and if you don't pass, just throw it away. That'd be funny to watch.
dannyw 15 minutes ago | parent
enraged_camel 12 minutes ago | parent
The issue of course is that if you do invest the time, then you're no longer saving time by using AI. You're just spending it reading and trying to understand something you didn't write. And that can be unpleasant in its own way.
My hot take is that for parts of a system that can be considered its core, forming a deep understanding is almost always important, and so is knowing how the different business domains integrate and where the connection points are. For many others, a high level understanding is sufficient. The difference is that now, with AI, you can make that choice. Before, you had to write everything yourself, and for any sufficiently complex and long-lived system it became impossible to hold all of it in your head.
caaqil 8 minutes ago | parent
I'd think that's what they call paradigm shift, and this probably repeated across generations from the introduction of the printing press, PC, the wheel, the internet to stochastic parrots that reduced what we still stubbornly insist require our special neurons to mere statistical modelling that can be aggressively scaled.
feverzsj 30 minutes ago | parent
Supermancho 8 minutes ago | parent
_doctor_love 30 minutes ago | parent
Always has been, always will be.
I am actually hopeful that AI will finally break the industry and force a reckoning around this. Some of it goes to our economic system. New builds are usually capitalizable, flashy, and a great way to get promoted.
Doing ten to fifteen years of thankless maintenance, keeping a critical system alive with high quality? Usually nobody cares, and it's OPEX, not sexy.
PaulHoule 29 minutes ago | parent
I was in a Hackathon for students which quite a few staff, like myself, infiltrated. The results were completely unfair, staff and teams with staff (like mine) cleaned up the awards.
In my case I was working with a student who was much better at writing platformers in Unity than I was and an another student who could draw the art we needed even if she'd been trained to think every problem we had interacting with each other had something to do with "the patriarchy".
Myself I'd been in many startups where the game was make a half-baked demo that you could demo on stage and get people excited about it. So everything from presenting broken software on stage and making it look not just perfect but enticing and developing software that has the qualities it takes to present it that way was routine for me, the bit that isn't routine is onboarding unexperienced people to this life in two days.
The more things are unprecedented, the more you need a longer view with more experience.
behnamoh 29 minutes ago | parent
madspindel 14 minutes ago | parent
I can't read the source code since it's 8 million lines of code and written in a programming language I don't know and in a language I don't speak.
jarjoura 23 minutes ago | parent
So, if you're pooping out code, and committing it because tests still pass, and that's all you know, you're in for a treat. When an executive wants to know why a b0rked feature lost their department millions of dollars, guess who will have to answer for it, and its not the LLM.
My advice is to find ways to keep on top of how it all works, and if you're the only one who cares, well, then, that makes you even more valuable, not less.
sam_lowry_ 23 minutes ago | parent
We have both the tools and the skills.
Later, we will loose the skills because of AI and the depletion of natural resources will lead to the scarcity of the tools.
Razengan 23 minutes ago | parent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt0OoXluC8g at 4:08:
Writers disagree on what effect word processing will have on the quality of our written language.
Some writers are concerned that computer assistance may promote dry bland writing.zzzeek 21 minutes ago | parent
cubano 10 minutes ago | parent
As I was reading the OP I kept thinking..well this sounds exactly like what used to happen before AI.
The more things change...
mococa 18 minutes ago | parent
hollowonepl 17 minutes ago | parent
bentt 16 minutes ago | parent
Here's an anecdote about a way to do this wrong.
I have found with AI coding methods that there's a line where it becomes a hail-mary (in the American Football sense).
A hail-mary is when you throw the ball to the end zone and just pray someone catches it. This is almost always at the end of the game.
This moment with AI code is indicative that you can't put together a coherent plan so you just tell the agent to "make it good". It used to be that the results here would suck, but now the agents are really competent, so the results might be good.
But at that moment, that's your cue to back up. Because as soon as you take a solution that's so far detached from your understanding, you're underwater. The hail mary is not part of a larger game plan. It's the last play of the game. There's nothing after.
So as soon as you reach that moment in your coding, you're signaling that you're done understanding not just the code, but even the way it works at a high level. If you're still going to work with this code after, then back up and work with the AI to get more understanding of the problem.
WesolyKubeczek 13 minutes ago | parent
So that's why that Andy Weir's book was named that!
ninjahawk1 15 minutes ago | parent
raflueder 15 minutes ago | parent
Really? Seems like they're not making proper use of the tool. I've been reading MORE not less, and also learning more along the way. Just hitting "enter" is a choice, these tools are so powerful if you invest your curiosity, time and experience.
Sounds like they don't care about what they're doing in the first place, writing code by hand won't fix that.
raahelb 14 minutes ago | parent
> You may not write the code by hand but you understand it enough to investigate and fix it when it fails. It is how I think we should leverage AI instead of becoming a meat proxy.
[0]: https://raahelbaig.com/entry/responsible-human-in-the-loop/
malfist 8 minutes ago | parent
Not only that, but even if we assume best effort on the engineer, the business pressures don't often allow that. I'm under constant pressure to deliver more, faster with less people. The performance eval ladder at my company was just reworked to double the amount of deliverable features expected per job level per year. Our CEO told us we should be able to deliver what took us the past decade to deliver in a quarter, every quarter going forward.
How could you possibly have a human anywhere near that loop with those demands?
tangled 13 minutes ago | parent
Aside: this reminds me of running a “negative split” in a long distance race, where you aim to run the second half faster than the first. It’s very hard to do this because you have to be willing to let everyone else in your pace group pull waaay ahead, and running above race pace in the beginning feels “free” with all of the adrenaline. But if you do manage to stay disciplined, it’s a fantastic feeling to reach half-way with gas in the tank, and then start to reel in all those runners who sped by in the beginning.
BiraIgnacio 12 minutes ago | parent
nader 12 minutes ago | parent
piloto_ciego 11 minutes ago | parent
MomsAVoxell 11 minutes ago | parent
And having AI code to review is no different than any other code that ever was to review, so the review tooling is - as it necessitates - also benefited by lugubrious application of .. more AI. But: all AI is human reviewed.
So it's not a big impact. We just don't ship code that isn't 100% human reviewed, If that's insurmountable: you're doing it wrong. Use AI to make code readable again.
And then, also, put AI back in its box. Don't give devs 100% full-time API access to subscriptions: give them actual hardware to use, to go 100% local.
Local AI is, thus, the best AI, folks. Don't use more than you can run locally, is a great way to keep AI code properly maintainable.
The industry will prove this, itself, sooner or later: If you can't put your AI in its box for safe-keeping, you're doing it wrong, anyway... and should've already learned this practice as a habit, decades ago, vis a vis future-proof tooling... (See also: not logging everything you do with an AI? Big fail.)
Sure, the absolutely intoxicating addiction of Big Metal AI™ is going to put a lot of consumers in a deep, deep pit of Neo-Illiteracy - however: 'good' AI code is actually just good code.
andy_ppp 11 minutes ago | parent
Dealing with legacy messes I used to get frustrated and bored of making the improvements, now it's easy to clean up code bases and write loads of tests. I asked Astra to come up with a plan for Playwright testing the whole App, I have not built it yet but the flows suggested were fantastic as was the ephemeral database we plan to create for CI.
I built my friends portfolio website almost entirely vibe coded in 4 hours and it looks unbelievable, we added so much slickness (he's a designer) just prompting together. I used a CMS I had never used once before and it was so so easy to do without any of the usual need to read docs about everything.
I've done so much devops now I'm actually fairly confident that me and an AI can do anything you want in terms of deployment/infra and scaling from AWS to Terraform to whatever.
Anyway my main concern about this technology is not that it is crap at coding it's that the improvements in how it codes and thinks are absolutely dramatic which is extremely scary - it has come so far in a year I wonder what the next year will bring.
ecshafer 9 minutes ago | parent
If you can really get a good set of requirements, go and write all of your test cases out, and then throw it at an AI that will one shot it. Its perfect.