Yet another Hacker News

JetBrains reported a net financial loss first time in its tracked history

279 points thw_9a83c 2 hours ago 277 comments

theappsecguy 2 hours ago | parent

Wow, this really sucks. With all the money flocking to companies that trained LLMs on stolen data, we may lose the only set of IDEs that offer high quality professional development tools

sebzim4500 2 hours ago | parent

Their revenue is still going up so I don't think that's it.

the__alchemist 1 hour ago | parent

I'm surprised that the word "only" still applies. I have my laments about JB (PyCharm / RR): Mainly centered around performance. Yet it has no competition! Whenever I read about VsCode, or Zed as alternatives, I feel disbelief, as they're not in the same league.

Zed in particular, from the way it was described upon release, sounded like it should have been a JB competitor. Reality: It can't even move functions or structs!

gonzalohm 1 hour ago | parent

How is vscode not in the same league? JB feels way too bloated and slow and doesn't add anything significant over other offerings

ipsod 1 hour ago | parent

Code intelligence (find usages, go to definition, refactor/rename/move, etc.) and debugging are on another level - more powerful, more reliable, with more edge-cases covered.

At least, that was so in dynamic languages, like Python, and PHP, last I checked.

gomoboo 1 hour ago | parent

It's not even close. vscode can approximate JB IDEs but that takes pulling in plugins on your own, managing their configuration, and adapting when the setup inevitably breaks. JB IDEs bake in everything you can get via vscode plugins with documentation, a cohesive experience, and regular maintenance to keep them working for you. Concrete examples that are better in JB land for me: git conflict resolution, refactoring (in numerous ways), jumping to definitions, finding usages (especially on Python projects).

ipsod 1 hour ago | parent

> It's not even close.

That's always been my experience. Not even close. One gives you legos that lets you make a plastic toy, and the other is an industrial machine shop for code.

I thought maybe I was holding VSCode wrong, though.

the__alchemist 1 hour ago | parent

> I thought maybe I was holding VSCode wrong, though.

Likewise (Same with zed). I've given them a thorough try several times, assuming I was holding it wrong as you say based on conversations with others who use them effectively. I've reached the conclusion you say here each time.

matsemann 1 hour ago | parent

Maybe there exist better ways, but I'd say every coworker I've seen in a VScode variant uses freetext search to find everything.

memsom 1 hour ago | parent

For dotnet, Rider runs rings around VSCode. Even using the Resharper plugin, VSCode is nowhere near the same functionality. I even use Rider above Visual Studio because it works way better for mobile and cross platform. VSCode runs okay on the same hardware as Rider, but it is all too manual to configure. VS2026 is a horrible bloated pig that constantly grinds to a halt on the same hardware.

Semaphor 46 minutes ago | parent

When have you tried VS last? Since they went multi core, it’s usually very fast and it’s mostly R# slowing it down (though I read that improved, dunno).

I use Rider but need VS for some things.

jayd16 40 minutes ago | parent

What about debugging and stepping into a DLL (decompiling it)? Out of the box DotPeek vs whatever vscode plugin you can set up.

But there's plenty of examples.

sebzim4500 1 hour ago | parent

I think you are going to get a lot of pushback from people using e.g. typescript, for which VS Code is pretty good.

For languages like kotlin, java and even python JB is still way ahead of the competition.

chrisandchris 54 minutes ago | parent

Pretty good is pretty bad for a tool I use most of my day.

speed_spread 54 minutes ago | parent

Considering that Kotlin is their own invention and that it exists mainly to schmooze people onto their platform I sure hope they're ahead with it!

joshkel 51 minutes ago | parent

I love JetBrains. For many years I was a happy subscriber to the All Products Pack, paid for out of my own pocket. I would have said that you'd have to pry my JetBrains from my cold, dead hands.

A year or two ago, I finally gave up:

1. The IDE was simply too slow - notably slower and "heavier" than VS Code in particular - and it seemed to regularly get slower.

2. Bugs - from the complex (TypeScript constructs that tsc itself handles just fine while WebStorm's code analysis kept throwing false positives on) to the trivial and silly (failing to properly handle the <col> tag in React), and often staying open for years.

Meanwhile, VS Code just kept getting better, addressing the complaints I had with it while staying fast.

I work almost exclusively in TypeScript these days; as other commenters pointed out, I'm sure that JetBrains products are still great for other languages.

And their refactoring tools remain second to none. I'm profoundly disappointed in our industry that the VS Code developers apparently looked at JetBrains, with its arsenal of expertly crafted, deterministic, testable refactorings, and said, "Nope, we'd rather make everyone use inherently random language models for anything more complex than Rename Symbol."

onlyrealcuzzo 1 hour ago | parent

Only?

Microsoft's stuff is quite good, or you've got a really high bar.

caaqil 1 hour ago | parent

> Microsoft

> quite good

Good one.

pluc 1 hour ago | parent

Happy to hate on MS as much as the next guy but VSCode is pretty much the Chrome of the IDE world at this point, that might be what parent was alluding to (since I'd struggle to defend any other Microsoft software).

Sharlin 1 hour ago | parent

VSCode is not an IDE. It's a text editor with some optional bells and whistles. I presume the GP refers to the actual Visual Studio.

taspeotis 1 hour ago | parent

Visual Studio is less shit than ever, but only after JetBrains gave MS a firm kick up the ass with Rider.

folkrav 1 hour ago | parent

It's got an editor, a debugger, code intelligence, a debugger, terminal, task running, test explorer, refactoring tools, project management, and so on. What's an IDE if not a text editor with bells and whistles?

szatkus 1 hour ago | parent

It's really not an option in Javaland.

onlyrealcuzzo 1 hour ago | parent

It's almost as if a company can have good and bad products...

Microsoft has had a very long reputation (for good reason) for having good developer tooling, even if Windows was not particularly developer friendly...

Sharlin 1 hour ago | parent

Mostly constrained to a single ecosystem and dev/deployment platform - a platform that has never been particularly great for development and has been made vastly less so in the recent years.

pjmlp 1 hour ago | parent

Visual Studio, RAD Studio, Eclipse, Netbeans, XCode, QtCreator, KDevelop are still around and good enough for most workflows.

cosmic_cheese 35 minutes ago | parent

There are even areas in which some of those best IntelliJ IDEs.

One such thing that Xcode has that IntelliJ doesn’t is per-pane history. In Xcode hitting back/forward navigates history for your focused editor pane whereas IntelliJ’s navigates history across all editor panes.

This might sound like a minor difference, but Xcode’s way gets me to where I want to go more quickly most of the time because I’m not having to wade through the likely-irrelevant history of the other panes. It’s a frequent frustration whenever I have to use an IntelliJ IDE.

marginalia_nu 15 minutes ago | parent

Just feels like they've been making all the wrong decisions. Quality has been really lackluster, and their attempts to hop onto the AI train have been as annoying as they have been bad. CoPilot sucked. Their own AI coding models suck.

The redesign they've gone for also seems like a supremely weird choice. It's like they're trying to be more like VS Code, when their probably biggest selling point was that unlike VS Code, they offered a full and traditional IDE experience.

Their trajectory has been a deeply questionable mix of change for the sake of change and nervously doing what everyone else is doing.

dukeyukey 11 minutes ago | parent

Their revenue is up, why is them investing more a bad thing?

efficax 2 hours ago | parent

Engineers abandoning IDEs or did they burn a ton of cash on AI?

1899-12-30 2 hours ago | parent

given that their revenue is still increasing, I'm guessing it's the latter

onionisafruit 1 hour ago | parent

Their revenue is increasing, but their profits have been on a decline despite increased revenue. The table on that page only goes back to 2021, but the trend of increasing revenue and decreasing profits has been going on at least that long. I don’t think ai would have been a factor that far back. Even though github copilot did launch sometime around then, I doubt it was much of a factor.

patadura 2 hours ago | parent

Like or not, LLM are getting better at debugging than humans... Not sure for how long will companies will keep paying for IDEs (which, tbf, are peanuts compared to the LLM cost).

ThatPlayer 2 hours ago | parent

Why not both?

If engineers are abandoning IDEs then shouldn't they be following the engineers?

mrweasel 2 hours ago | parent

What stands out to me is https://www.helgilibrary.com/companies/jetbrains/total-cash-...

I have no idea what that contains, but it appears to be a rather large dip, compared to previous years. Overall it's not really that interesting without context and commentary from JetBrains.

SkyPuncher 2 hours ago | parent

I have paid out of pocket for Jetbrains for 15 years. I don’t think I’ve opened it in the past year and should probably cancel my subscription.

For me, the things that made Jebteains great just don’t matter anymore.

kugelblitz 2 hours ago | parent

What do you use then?

I still use it a lot for reviewing the code.

KptMarchewa 1 hour ago | parent

It is a good code viewer but way too heavy if you want to switch between branches often on a sufficiently large product.

cbg0 1 hour ago | parent

You'll be surprised (or not) to find out a lot of people aren't using anything. Claude gets asked to build it, then some other clown uses their copy of Claude to do the PR review and then it gets merged.

SkyPuncher 46 minutes ago | parent

VSCode for the rare time I need to view a file.

GitHub or Tuicr for code review. Still waiting for an agentic first review environment- which Jetbrains has missed the ball on.

vachina 2 hours ago | parent

The truth is there is no money to be made from (good) offline software.

InsideOutSanta 2 hours ago | parent

I find IntelliJ IDEA a great tool, even for my fully vibecoded apps. I edit the READMEs in it, look at the version history, use it for debugging, for builds, and so on.

My guess is that people aren't abandoning their IDEs. Their market is probably growing. I suspect they're burning money on subsidized inference, just like everybody else.

romanovcode 1 hour ago | parent

Both

perbu 2 hours ago | parent

Software is changing. It would be a good time to invest rather than to focus on the bottom line. Their revenue is up.

I’m not surprised.

keel-control 2 hours ago | parent

they're finished

bdavbdav 2 hours ago | parent

Why? Revenue still up. Investment.

markus_zhang 2 hours ago | parent

I don't think they can compete with AI IDEs. They should maybe focus on the niche that they are good at, and completely get rid of anything ML/AI related. It's going to be a lot cheaper.

It's better to be the king of a niche.

maxdo 2 hours ago | parent

like what , manually refactor code in hours, when agent can do it for you in minutes, or setting up debug/dev env when agent can also do that for you?

Applejinx 1 hour ago | parent

Manually refactor code in days if need be, when you have something specific in mind and intend a particular result.

'refactor' isn't just a blender. If I wanted agentic coding I would just do that. I'm quite happy for other people to so completely entangle themselves in agentic coding that they can't get out. Please proceed.

to add: I'm a paying JetBrains customer, but they could lose me if they vibecode themselves into a pile of slop. I'm not sure they're doing that, even if they're dabbling in it. I think there's still expertise there.

Theodores 1 hour ago | parent

This would make sense for me, as a long time Jetbrains user and not desiring to use AI for anything apart from single line code completion, which the current Jetbrains tools do quite well.

I have used their support before, to be extremely impressed. This is an area that they could differentiate themselves in.

rfgplk 1 hour ago | parent

They could establish a foothold in AI accelerated development but they sadly aren't doing it, instead focusing on "developing agents" (aka openclaw/pi/codex/claude simulacrum #9998).

eunos 1 hour ago | parent

> They should maybe focus on the niche that they are good aT

Ironically, back then they praised JetBrains for not following hype staying focused on IDE and Dev environment

jcmontx 2 hours ago | parent

IDEs are on a steep decline, so not so surprising. I've disabled most code extensions from vscode and find myself using multiple terminals and the built in git diff UI. I barely see the code _as a whole_, only care about the _code_ changes.

edit: added the extra words + I must mention I'm talking about legacy maintenance projects

bdavbdav 2 hours ago | parent

All the death knell comments - Is no one looking at the revenue line? Revenue still trending the same. Costs presumably haven't skyrocketed. They've invested in something big. Thats probably a good thing, and often needed to evolve.

snarfy 1 hour ago | parent

probably ai related

jeroenhd 1 hour ago | parent

Jetbrains has been pushing Junie real hard, my guess is that they've been giving out too many cheap tokens to try to stay relevant as Claude and friends pull people away from the IDE.

ipsod 1 hour ago | parent

Has anyone had a good experience with Junie, to share?

I've tried it, and it seemed fine, but not compelling enough to even spend the free usage I get with my All Products Pack.

jeroenhd 1 hour ago | parent

Worked fine as a free tool, but as long as AI companies are selling their slopware tokens below cost with subscriptions, it's not really that interesting in my opinion.

The Jetbrains integration is nice, but if you rely on the tool you're probably not going to use the IDE much anyway.

matsemann 1 hour ago | parent

It felt quite competitive about a year ago. But haven't tried it since, no idea how it has held up with the other advancing. What I liked was the tight integration with the IDE. I don't particularly like the way I work with Claude now, still wanting to check the changes, navigate code, ask questions, write some code myself etc. Feel claude mostly is for the "bigger" changes. Sometimes I just want to select some text and refactor it, or ask a stupid simple question without the "chat".

Blackthorn 1 hour ago | parent

Not personally but Junie was what made the fellow developer I respect most in the world actually start taking notice of LLMs as something useful instead of bad.

PaulHoule 1 hour ago | parent

I enjoyed it a lot early on. In particular it didn’t have all the confusing and anxiety inducing options that other agents have to use more expensive or less expensive models, I liked the way it approached “plan mode” [1] and I didn’t feel like I had to stress it about token costs the way I do with the other models…. Jetbrains now gives me a choice of agents which I don’t like because having to think about it makes feel like one of those “ai bros” who is overthinking their relationship to ai and underthinking their code.

I would like to see one more ide-integrated, like I think running commands like ‘grep’ with the shell is really for the birds (creates a risk that some other command line might be run, the wrong files might be accessed, all that) and rather there should be a specialized toolbox.

[1] … I reject vibe coding. Token costs be damned but I always like to have a talk before it starts like “I think…, maybe you should…, does this make sense?, do you have any questions for me before you start?” and later “what are you doing in the code in the selection?”

poncho_romero 1 hour ago | parent

I think Junie is comparable to something like Claude Code or Codex, but moving a little slower feature wise. It's perfectly adequate for developers who want to use AI but don't want to keep up with the bleeding edge of tooling.

surgical_fire 1 hour ago | parent

I used it for a bit.

It is alright to get an LLM review on code I write myself, but getting extra tokens is expensive, and it was not clear if I could configure it to use one of the API keys I have from GLM, MiMo, etc.

I tried Air as well. It was alright, but I found it a bit more cumbersome to use then Pi. I tried configuring Pi to be accessed though ACP, but it felt like going through a hoop to have a worse experience. Then again, I am not someone that manages multiple agents in parallel, at most I have one agent implementing something in a different repository while I am doing my own things.

Air could maybe be useful for me if I could plug in the LLMs I actually use directly, it is too tied to ChatGPT, Claude, etc.

chrisandchris 56 minutes ago | parent

I use it daily, but I'm also the AI consumer that is looking for something like a hammer and a saw (it's clear what their job are and they're doing their job fine). I'm absolutelty not looking for the next-gen-stuff, so I avoid Codex/Claude/...

Junie is boring, and that's perfect (for me).

bdcravens 46 minutes ago | parent

I tried it in DataGrip on a messy database. It hallucinated about which tables and columns to use. Had better results using Claude in the terminal and having it give me the SQL to run.

jermaustin1 1 hour ago | parent

In everyone's day jobs where they used an IDE 5 years ago, or even a year ago, are those jobs abandoning the IDE?

I still use Visual Studio in my day job, where Claude's output while VERY helpful, requires my ownership of everything, meaning I am inspecting every single line it changes. If a change is bigger than I think it should, I kill it before I commit.

I know I don't HAVE to use an IDE for that, but if the change is small enough, I am faster than asking Claude to understand the subtext behind my personal context of the product, and the IDE is supremely helpful for making a quick change across a handful of files.

kuekacang 1 hour ago | parent

Can't seem to beat vscode in over-ssh editing. Using IDEA it requires ~2GB transfer (local download plus ssh transfer) which is quite significant.

> ...inspecting...

I got used to sublime merge to context-switch editing vs reviewing, staging changes line-by-line

Gareth321 1 hour ago | parent

> meaning I am inspecting every single line it changes.

I think this is changing fast. Pressure is increasing on devs for output, and most devs I know are no longer inspecting lines. I have devs in my business unit who claim to not have looked at code for months, except on certain rare occasions. I am not a developer and this week I've been given access to the repo to build my own apps and extensions. There's a "review" between commit and deploy, but there's no chance the Tech Lead can manually review everything, so that's getting done by AI too.

I know this horrifies a lot of devs, but these tools are shockingly good and we are not seeing an increase in bugs. In fact our automated detections (also AI assisted) are reducing the number of customer reported critical bugs.

I really think the days of inspecting every line are over.

treis 49 minutes ago | parent

It's an interesting philosophic question. LLMs tend to be overly verbose and defensive in coding. It's not a ton of extra complexity but it makes the code harder to follow for a human. But if a human is not writing the code how much does that matter?

I agree that they have gotten shockingly good. It's been a long time since I've seen them do something that is objectively wrong. Once we get closer to the "too cheap to meter" cost level things will change radically again.

JambalayaJimbo 8 minutes ago | parent

Have you ever tried to use an LLM to add a feature to a really nice, pre 2023 codebase? It’s incredible how much easier it is to do, how much of a difference you instantly feel

narsonika 15 minutes ago | parent

This type of codebases will become a goldmine for cybersec in the near future. Except by then, only few people will be able to detect them or fix them. LLMs will leave the hardest problems and most difficult bugs plus and plethora of devs who either have skill atrophy or haven't learn these things in the first place.

chris_st 1 hour ago | parent

I had personal subscriptions to WebStorm and GoLand and cancelled them not long after getting Windsurf. Just don't need the IDE abilities like I used to... Still use 'go to definition' but that's pretty much it.

jeroenhd 58 minutes ago | parent

Junie's features are geared very much towards the more vibecoding side of things. Jetbrains even produced a vibecodin IDE.

ApolloFortyNine 54 minutes ago | parent

IMO what's being called an 'Agent Development Environment' solves this issue for you. I like Orca but there's a few dozen of them.

Basically they give you a way to view the code the llm has generated/changed easily, annotate that code for the llm, and manage multiple agents and at once.

aurareturn 54 minutes ago | parent

I can go for a week or two without opening my IDE. Unheard of just a year ago.

mjr00 1 hour ago | parent

Yeah look at the details below. Revenue is up 6% (which is not amazing but still growth). But staff expenses are up 34.2%. And the real big hint is "Cash Flow From Investing" plunging from -83 million $USD to -469. That's massive. They're staffing up and investing in... something.

usrusr 1 hour ago | parent

> and investing in... something.

Reads like aimlessly burning whatever they felt they were able to burn without existential risk on some "also ran" LLM sinkhole.

In other words: nothing to see here, same as everybody else.

echelon 1 hour ago | parent

> without existential risk

To do nothing is to die. I've been a JetBrains subscriber for over a decade. Nobody is going to use their tools in five years. I certainly don't need my subscription anymore.

> on some "also ran" LLM sinkhole.

They can't do Junie. It's a dead end. They can't do the same thing everyone else is doing either, or they're exactly as you put it: an "also ran" in a very crowded field.

The only way for JetBrains to survive is to figure out their Garmin play. They either find some niche within the existing product or - maybe (and very improbably) - they can innovate something wild nobody else has figured out yet that provides a path to new fertile pasture. But that's more the startup path than the thriving incumbent facing innovator's dilemma path.

But no matter what, if they stay the course, they're dead. Just like half the people expecting to still be writing code by hand.

watwut 1 hour ago | parent

> Just like half the people expecting to still be writing code by hand.

I know this is not your main point, but common.

If this is true, AI would be the first tech impossible to learn 5 years after it appeared.

RobotCaleb 9 minutes ago | parent

Common? Did you mean come on?

sporedro 1 hour ago | parent

I love their tools and am keeping my subscription for now, but would have to agree.

VSCode has been eating at their users for years now. Jetbrains tools still were much better in my opinion but they are competing with “free” and “good enough”. With AI getting better, the main advantages of Jetbrains are gone.

I don’t need a massive IDE anymore. I still need an editor, but there’s hundreds of better tools for quick edits than a massive IDE.

It’s a company at the end of the day, but I hope they find a niche or pull a Garmin play like you said, otherwise I don’t see them being relevant.

mschuster91 1 hour ago | parent

> Nobody is going to use their tools in five years.

What will replace it? The dumpster fire called Eclipse, certainly not. The even larger dumpster fire that is Electron based VS Code, also not. And "vibe coding", "agentic AI" etc. will also be a thing of the past once the VC money spigot selling tokens for far below actual cost dries up.

The JetBrains portfolio is here to stay.

(One might even see a total ban for American products in the EU or a significant push in sovereign technology on the horizon, and JB stands to profit from both options!)

mort96 49 minutes ago | parent

I'm not a fan of VS Code myself, but everyone I know uses it (except for people I myself have influenced into using something else). It truly is a sort of default editor these days.

Oras 1 hour ago | parent

> They either find some niche within the existing product

They should stay in where they started, dev experience and IDEs custom for each language. Entering the AI coding was a mistake in my opinion, I’m sure one can argue that AI coding would have better tooling without their IDEs, but AI coders (Cc and codex) don’t use IDEs anymore so it’s a lost battle before the start

rolosa 1 hour ago | parent

I remember around 2019 or so they shipped their first AI feature and there was a huge backlash for it. Did that change their direction in anyway? Obviously 2026 is a way different landscape than back then.

noodletheworld 1 hour ago | parent

> I certainly don't need my subscription anymore

Sure. I still use mine though; privately and at work.

> Nobody is going to use their tools in five years.

> they're dead. Just like half the people expecting to still be writing code by hand.

Hyperbole much. Leave it on LinkedIn man.

Who knows?

5 years is a long time.

They're trying to navigate the AI era just like everyone else.

You know what we got told at work? “Scrappy AI startups are snapping at our heels, we need to move fast so the competition doesn't over take us”

…but if you ask: what startups? Silence. If you ask, why are we scared of some teenager vibe coding a platform and stealing our customers? Silence.

Dont question the narrative.

Of course AI is an existential threat. Of course there are vibed startups trying to eat our market.

Have you not seen our share price?

Such hyperbolic BS. Ffs. Calm down.

tetraodonpuffer 1 hour ago | parent

I disagree on to do nothing is also to die, I'd love to continue paying if they prioritized bugfixing, speed, remote/container editing and having an open AI ecosystem, as well as supporting any new language features without degenerating into an "always online" editor like vs.code.

I could not care less about "new paradigm" editors, UI reworks and AI lock-in offerings, the only AI I want is let me bring my own local model, or interface with claude / codex / ...

jbvlkt 1 hour ago | parent

I think they are trying new things even with "nobody writes code anymore" in mind. Their IDEs are now MCP servers for agents to reason about the code. Imagine your agent will stop wasting tokens using grep to find symbol usages if he can just ask IDE where it is used. They are not the best option for vibecoders right now but who knows what will happen in 1 year.

Integration with other developer tools, code reviews etc. are better than ever. Ideavim is probably the best vim plugin and it gets new features every month. They are also investing a lot in the AI.

I would bet they will survive just fine unless we would write software in slack only using emoji :-)

Semaphor 52 minutes ago | parent

And their MCP servers and tools are great! But I wish they’d remember that some of us also actually code in the IDE, because human usage quality of their IDEs has been getting worse in that time…

microtonal 48 minutes ago | parent

Imagine your agent will stop wasting tokens using grep to find symbol usages if he can just ask IDE where it is used. They are not the best option for vibecoders right now but who knows what will happen in 1 year.

Can't agents just use a language server? There are already a bunch of projects that provide this, e.g.: https://www.agent-lsp.com/

Doesn't seem like a huge differentiator anymore?

I don't really know much about their current users, but from a business perspective, post-tokenmaxxing and them having an IDE, it seems like the most efficient environment for having a human in the loop is something they could tackle?

ffaccount2 44 minutes ago | parent

Well nobody needs to use IDE. There were always people who used vim with tmux as their IDE. The value of IDE is the I as in integrated - I see some value in having easy to manage single dev environment with batteries included. (I'm not an IDE guy though, and I personally closer to vim/vscode + plugins)

Geof25 47 minutes ago | parent

Not using tooling (or not creating one) for repeating tasks and trying to one shot everything with latest frontier model is a difference between the bill for AI usage being 10 Eur or 10000 Eur

miohtama 1 hour ago | parent

I have been Jetbrains subscriber for over a decade and stopped using them last year. Visual Studio Code did LLM integration better. And now I am using VS Code less and less with AI-native control plane like Paseo. I can literally develop on my mobile phone.

PunchyHamster 41 minutes ago | parent

They picked weird direction. "Here, pay ENTIRE EXTRA SUB to use the LLM we made that is worse than one you're already using".

Yeah, no, vast majority just want to pick a AI vendor and integrate it into their IDEA or CLion or whatever other editor they were already using. Pushing into entirely different subscription was dead on arrival.

They figured that out and started integrating it into main tooling (https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/33314-air), but they definitely wasted a bunch of resources on something nobody really wanted.

donor20 19 minutes ago | parent

This was so annoying as a long time subscriber- we were begging them to get / let us integrate some of the more mainstream models - didn’t help that there early model was terrible

mattbrewsbytes 1 hour ago | parent

I still have this naive notion that we don't need LLMs for code generation and editing. Does a system need the knowledge of the full works of Shakespeare to be able to output Javascript?

Maybe people smarter than me know better but couldn't there be a middle ground where an IDE/Editor has an embedded engine (doesn't need to be a full-on LLM) that doesn't require external tool calls and token spend?

If an organization is paying $2400/year per developer for tokens and a highly intelligent editor/IDE comes around that charges $1000/yr and gets more output at a fixed cost, its a no-brainer of a decision.

dimitrios1 1 hour ago | parent

I have hope we will get there eventually, once all the hype/wealth extraction/boys club giving all their buddies money cycles end, and the specialized tools with real value start to emerge.

intrasight 38 minutes ago | parent

These specialized tools already deliver tremendous value. What happens on the backend financially is of no concern to me, as I have no influence over it.

blktiger 1 hour ago | parent

I think the amount of knowledge to correctly work on code is more than you'd think, because at the end of the day writing code without an understanding of the environment it exists in/for is likely to not fit the problem correctly. Maybe it doesn't need knowledge of _Shakespeare_ per se, but if you were working on a virtual tabletop having knowledge of tabletop games can help with identifying the right implementation to use, knowing what kind of constraints to consider, etc.

Sheeny96 1 hour ago | parent

Forgive my naive understanding of LLMs - but how do you get semantic understanding of a codebase, such that it knows what changes to make/why/where, without a wider understanding of language more broadly?

I'm using the word understanding loosely there, but I couldn't think of another word.

afavour 16 minutes ago | parent

It's a totally fair question. I'm personally wondering if there's a half way point. Some kind of structured language that isn't plain English that a "dumb" LLM is able to parse. It could be human written, or it could be written by a "smart" LLM at a greater cost.

edukite 7 minutes ago | parent

Depends on what exactly you want to change. Lsp can do a lot but only in very simple changes.

Intellij when I used to use it had a lot great features like refactoring, extracting part of code as a function, renaming and creating empty classes/boilerplate but that's it

In current job I can order LLM to take data sink from other endpoint and write new with given URL. It will fetch from endpoint, check what it gives, compare with other and write new sink. Then it needs polishing because it always create something as awful as possible with cloning data all around but the most boring and soul sucking part is done

AIblemblio 1 hour ago | parent

I think this already happens through Mixture of Experts which is now build in to ost models.

But finding out what an LLM needs to understand from a business side to write your code good, is an otpimzation which no one cares currently.

I'm pretty sure we either stay on big full frontier models for a long time, just use them for everything or we will start to see more and more people doing finetuning/project specific training like java + german + english + business contxt xy;

It will be an indicator for the whole industry.

DrewADesign 34 minutes ago | parent

My gut says the economics, e.g hardware/data center/resource constraints, are going make the economics of small specialized models more attractive. Without any evidence whatsoever, I also think that the big frontier companies will have to de-emphasize chatbots as huge models in favor of chatbots as huge products with a much much more granular mixture of experts approach, but with much smaller models. I’ve been saying for a while now that AI products have to hit the gas on prioritizing product design to reliably solve real people’s problems in predictable-enough ways, because the current approach is only really appealing to enthusiasts, developers, or optimistic managers, and with the kind of money they’re throwing around, that’s not going to work.

Roark66 55 minutes ago | parent

You know what, considering there was a recent "small" open weights LLM released recently that meets 90% of my coding needs I'm inclined to agree.

Qwen3.8-Flash-Next - relatively small, it runs on 6 6 year old GPUs on my home PC happily running 5 simultaneous 262k sessions with additional 10 cached in RAM (bought back when you didn't have to remortgage your house for Ram) and it has been the first local model that is not a toy.

But there is a class of problems where I still reach for Anthropic's fable...

However, I have a hunch bordering with certainty Anthropic is achieving such great results by doing a lot of harness tricks.

For example opus 4.8, is not much better on coding than before mentioned Qwen model, but gets amazing results on factual knowledge stuff (the knowing all works of Shakespeare thing). How hard would it be to add a general knowledge RAG to requests that contain relevant questions and beat all benchmarks like that? Not very hard.

So I think there is big innovation to be had in harnesses, routers, inference and so on.

As to money spent on AI per developer my current client (a fortune 200 software company) spends $500 per month. That is $6k a year. A lot more than your examples. And many people run out of their quota pretty quickly.

PunchyHamster 45 minutes ago | parent

> Maybe people smarter than me know better but couldn't there be a middle ground where an IDE/Editor has an embedded engine (doesn't need to be a full-on LLM) that doesn't require external tool calls and token spend?

IDEA already have small LLM for one line code completion IIRC.

But the gain people want from LLM is generally "here, add this entire feature" or "here, go thru every dependency's changelog and update code to work with latest version". Those are not small LLM tasks

bryanrasmussen 28 minutes ago | parent

I suppose how much literary support you need in your model depends directly on how erudite the comments are.

Would there be problem domains in which the more educated LLM would perform better? Are your names directly related to concepts from said domain,

LLM comments: "I think it may be a potential bug that the sum VATAddedTax gets added to the TaxFreeItems".

I mean it seems a bit unnecessary but also maybe it can help in unexpected ways.

JambalayaJimbo 13 minutes ago | parent

We’re conditioned to interact with language models as chatbots and in that sense strong language understanding (implicit - some sort of world knowledge), is probably necessary for that?

But I’m sure we can have a small model that’s really strong at programming concepts, JavaScript syntax, and that’s about it. You’d interact with it differently, at specific seams in your code base - review a PR, merge two functions together, investigate these logs.

Or maybe I’m just not adequately absorbing the bitter lesson. Idk

chinathrow 16 minutes ago | parent

JetBrains Air

simoncion 1 hour ago | parent

> ...the real big hint is "Cash Flow From Investing" plunging from -83 million $USD to -469. That's massive. They're staffing up and investing in... something.

...or they're bailing out of really bad investments before they become even worse ones...

neuropacabra 1 hour ago | parent

I hope they are not investing in tokens. I say this as ex-JetBrainer. I want JetBrains to succeed but what it would in the IDE landscape?

echoangle 1 hour ago | parent

Could they label that as investing in such a report? Sounds misleading. Investing to me means paying for something you then own afterwards, paying for AI sounds like a normal expense.

jm4 1 hour ago | parent

Cost of services is up. I suspect that's where the token cost comes into play, but they didn't "invest" in tokens. They can't call that an investment anyway. The increase in cost of services relative to revenue impacts net income - we can see that in prior years - but that's not the whole story. Total assets on the balance sheet increased at the same time net income decreased. They spent money on something of value.

piker 56 minutes ago | parent

Why couldn’t they capitalize token spend?

TheOtherHobbes 44 minutes ago | parent

How much? Are they burning tokens to heat the offices?

I've always been a JB fan. But the last few updates have been quite rough, and they really don't seem to have worked out the AI thing at all.

jagged-chisel 30 minutes ago | parent

> … they really don't seem to have worked out the AI thing at all.

Who has?

PunchyHamster 39 minutes ago | parent

https://junie.jetbrains.com/ probably.

No idea why they thought they can compete with frontier AI labs on that, it's entirely waste of money

They also tried to push AI feature set as a separate subscription which is just insane in current tooling market.

All users wanted is good integration of multi-AI providers in their base offering. I think they are slowly shifting to that but that's a lot of money wasted already

rco8786 6 minutes ago | parent

Just a semi-educated guess....they plowed a bunch of cash into an "AI native" IDE product after getting spooked by Cursor.

beached_whale 2 minutes ago | parent

Most of their products have an AI harness embedded and it works well, at least for me. Has tools to let the models access proper debugging too(my experience is Clion) so that my build is available to them even when using remote/docker builds. The integration with codex works well too.

They host a lot of models too, and that is probably where they burned the cash.

echelon 1 hour ago | parent

RustRover used to be my daily driver.

Now it's Claude Code and ever so occasionally Codex.

I never do work in IDEs by hand anymore. I stopped writing code entirely in February and I will likely never write code again unless my internet dies.

I need a JetBrains-level AST navigator that focuses on high level code navigation and understanding, and moreover on code and architectural review. I need to quickly scan diffs and quickly see architecture at a glance.

Of course even that too many eventually fall away.

I rarely open RustRover these days. I could never have predicted that.

user43928 1 hour ago | parent

Not sure who downvoted this. JetBrains IDEs are done for.

I don't even remember the last time I opened them, I cancelled my All Products pack this year.

The advantage it had over vscode was always the better language features and the familiar UI.

None of that is useful to me in AI based workflows. Some might still disagree, but the manual development workflow using an IDE is clearly dying.

JetBrain's revenue will obviously crater as a result, particularly when slower enterprise licenses follow.

echelon 1 hour ago | parent

> Not sure who downvoted this.

Half of HN hates AI.

A large percentage thinks that the current status quo is how things will look over the next decade. They don't think everything is fundamentally and irreversibly changing.

Nobody is coming out of this with the same career. The whole world is being rewired. Some people really don't like that.

I'm just glad we're out of the web platform / cellphone incrementalism era. I wish more of my career could have been spent with this rocket fuel. It's dangerous and hypergolic, but it's fun and flashy and capable of pulling us out of this gravity well.

cbg0 1 hour ago | parent

I use AI on a daily basis and I still found all of your takes in this thread to be silly hyperbole.

monkey_monkey 54 minutes ago | parent

It's kinda cute that you think you're the prophet of AI spreading wisdom

swozey 1 hour ago | parent

This is like watching weekend car tinkerers argue with Ferrari mechanics about their tooling. "I'm never going to write code ever again."

user43928 1 hour ago | parent

Only that it isn't, and that millions of professionals, including myself, use agentic AI successfully to implement high quality software.

That there is no lack of people delivering low quality using AI does not change this.

swozey 1 hour ago | parent

You don't get the nuance that there are people who enjoy the writing the code part more than they enjoy the handholding and hitting enter on a prompt part. And they write it fast or concise enough to not need to prompt engineer bicker with a machine.

And as soon as an edge case pops up that your model will have never been able to hear about because it hasn't been released publicly, security vuln, whatever, you'll get a "fix" confidently hallucinated at you and be none the wiser.

There's going to be a huge pendulum swing with all the llm zombies and sanewashing it like this isn't helping anyone.

All of this just oozes junior engineer if you're even employed in the field at all.

user43928 59 minutes ago | parent

I do get that some people enjoy the manual process more than they enjoy building the product.

It doesn't give you the right to insult my expertise, and frankly your arguments sound like things that one would make up despite little actual experience using AI to develop software.

throw1234567891 38 minutes ago | parent

How can one insult something one knows nothing about. Tell us what sort of expert are you instead of patting yourself on the back. Anybody can come here and claim they're bigger experts than you. Will you believe them? Maybe you're a big ego with rubbish "engineering" skills.

mastermage 47 minutes ago | parent

there is also quite enough fields in which AI generated code is just not even allowed to touch the codebase to begin with.

user43928 36 minutes ago | parent

There surely is code so critical that not fully understanding every line of it is not an option.

That's probably the rare exception.

Even in finance everyone is using AI.

throw1234567891 39 minutes ago | parent

> millions of professionals, including myself,

> there is no lack of people delivering low quality using AI

I like how you self-associate. Do you really belong to the first group, or is that what you think you are.

esafak 1 hour ago | parent

Hobbyists are more likely to use IDEs at this point; pros have to get work done.

poncho_romero 1 hour ago | parent

I "code" using Codex but I still use PHPStorm for checking diffs, database access, reviewing PRs, and the debugger. The value proposition has changed, not disappeared.

user43928 1 hour ago | parent

I always preferred to check MR diffs in GitLab.

And I don't use the debugger nowadays. The AI can do it much faster and add relevant instrumentation and parse logs.

mjr00 1 hour ago | parent

> Not sure who downvoted this.

If you've been on HN long enough you recognize that the OP is quite prolific in making absurd claims about AI: infamously predicted that children would be making professional, Hollywood level films by the end of 2025, and is now spending their time building the 5000th barely functional clone of Adobe tools[0]. It's probably a little unfair, but they are bold claims from someone who really does not have the ground to be making bold claims.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49958850

yolo3000 1 hour ago | parent

I've been paying for the all products pack for 8 years now, but at my latest job all code is generated, and I think this will be the reality at most companies. I won't extend this year

PunchyHamster 38 minutes ago | parent

please tell me what you work on so I can pre-emptively ban it

dukeyukey 11 minutes ago | parent

Why do you think their revenue is up?

esafak 1 hour ago | parent

I use https://github.com/DetachHead/rebased, which is based on IntelliJ, for review. The maintainer is responsive.

bakugo 1 hour ago | parent

Or more likely, they're burning cash trying to chase the AI train to no avail while their core product stagnates, which is definitely not a good thing.

echelon 1 hour ago | parent

There won't be anyone left to pay for the core product.

Coding by hand is for dinosaurs.

JetBrains needs to figure out the AI workflow that developers will be using over the next decade. Assuming that's going to be a big enough market, of course. A bigger market might be to build for agents and completely autonomous use cases.

Bridged7756 1 hour ago | parent

IDEs are for professionals. I understand that LLMs can one shot a weather app, and I get that it's exciting, but this is not the case with complex software.

fg137 1 hour ago | parent

I agree with you in principle but I am seeing my colleague who supposedly is an experienced engineer just sends out 40-file PRs without going through the code. When someone asked why the code does a certain thing he used LLM to come up with an answer. Apparently he has no idea what the code is doing and I doubt he reviews any of it or cares.

phoghed 1 hour ago | parent

Yes, welcome to the new world. This is how things are now. Every couple months the models and tools get better, while everyone keeps assuring themselves that any day now they’re going to run into the wall. Whether we like it or not, this is how it is. Let go and let Claude.

bakugo 1 hour ago | parent

I don't understand what the value proposition of such an employee is. If all you're doing is acting as a meat proxy between your manager and your AI, why does your role even exist? Why shouldn't your superiors just prompt the AI directly?

fg137 50 minutes ago | parent

The management cares more about "this dude ships things" than "this dude ships things that are maintainable".

Whether someone else will be left cleaning up the mess (I have been in that position) is a separate question.

cosmic_cheese 50 minutes ago | parent

I agree. Even in the era of LLMs, part of one’s job as a software developer is to understand the codebase and how it works and be able to fix bugs and add features without breaking other things in the process or compromising quality or security.

If you’re not doing that and just blindly committing whatever code the LLM generates without so much as glancing at it, you’re not adding any value and there’s a good chance that with a little initial guidance, the janitor could perform your prompt-jockeying about as well.

notrustincloud 46 minutes ago | parent

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcIMIyQnOso

I couldnt not put this here. I have people skills.

steve1977 43 minutes ago | parent

What is the value proposition of the managers? In the old times, it was mostly managing the human aspects of development. At least in my experience, managers wouldn't know what to prompt, even if they could.

bakugo 1 hour ago | parent

This yours?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49958850

moomin 1 hour ago | parent

Oh, they don't need a reason to let the core product stagnate. They've been doing that for years.

FeloniousHam 1 hour ago | parent

I only use their DataGrip product. Compared to the competition they are iterating at lightspeed.

poncho_romero 1 hour ago | parent

The war in Ukraine and subsequent move to Czechia did seem to hurt them pretty badly, but I wouldn't say they are stagnant. I've been a happy customer of PHPStorm for years and it continues to improve.

sofixa 1 hour ago | parent

Tbf their core product is at risk by everyone and their mom having an "AI IDE" product.

bakugo 58 minutes ago | parent

If your existing, well-established product is at risk due to new, competing products that do things in radically different ways, immediately dropping your product to chase the competition from way behind is usually not the right move. Unless you have a significant moat around your ecosystem, what reason do users have to adopt your inferior copy instead of the thing you copied?

I firmly believe JetBrains would have a better chance of survival if they stopped chasing the AI hype and got back to work on their IDEs, accepting the fact that they'll have less users than before. Right now, they're completely lost.

jm4 1 hour ago | parent

Apparently, no one commenting knows how to read financial statements. They look at one item and assume the company is going out of business. Meanwhile, their total assets have increased. Cost of services have increased significantly over recent years - mostly commensurate with revenue growth, although the gap has been shrinking. Operating costs have been pretty flat. I don't have time to investigate where they spent the money, but the company is not at risk. They brought in more money than in prior years and spent it on something. That's it.

binlog 1 hour ago | parent

> They've invested in something big

Wonder what the "something big" could be that companies are throwing money into in 2026.

maxdo 2 hours ago | parent

why this is a surprise? I have 0 reasons to buy IDE in 2026.

Their main moat was smart refactor, and a few other nice tools to debug. regardless of what you think about coding is done, agents and your harness is the best tool. I heard they doing business accelerator to find a new business ideas. But as a company, hardly imagine anyone buying expensive IDE in 2 years. Why?

cbg0 1 hour ago | parent

> regardless of what you think about coding is done, agents and your harness is the best tool.

I guess you're all in on that Anthropic IPO with the "coding is solved" approach.

greyw 1 hour ago | parent

There will always be people that write code with pen and paper. Its going to be an art form though rather than something productive.

jen20 1 hour ago | parent

> why this is a surprise? I have 0 reasons to buy IDE in 2026.

If the first part follows the second, the surprise is that revenue is up while the prevailing opinion appears to be "no-one needs to buy an IDE".

LogicArsenal 2 hours ago | parent

Revenue is up. Looks like they took on a lot of debt. What did they spend it on?

runetech 2 hours ago | parent

I still love my IDEA & Rider, but a lot of my attention has moved to VSCode with Claude Code plugin. The Claude plugin/tooling for these IDE's is abysmal in comparison (talking strictly about the Claude Code experience here - not the bundlende AI Assistant.

I am not moving away from JetBrains anytime soon, but it does gets harder to justify when I spend considerable time in a competing offering that has better experience and is free...

saadn92 2 hours ago | parent

Yep, I don't remember the last time I opened up an IDE anymore. I mainly built my own open source AI coding orchestrator lol: https://github.com/saadnvd1/agent-os

The landscape is changing significantly, and I think these types of tools will become more popular.

rfgplk 1 hour ago | parent

Yep. Especially considering their primary userbase are technically apt developers, there's zero reason to use any of their products. Especially given how quickly the landscape is changing.

NoHedgeAllBets 2 hours ago | parent

Unfortunate because they make great products, but also expected given AI. A bit like Nokia, they're a great company that didn't do anything particularly wrong but they got swept by a superior technology.

fidotron 2 hours ago | parent

Android Studio always was Google acquisition bait, but now they are going to need to be more serious about it.

giancarlostoro 1 hour ago | parent

They keep trying to bite into AI but they should focus on making their tools more stable and should have invested more into Kotlin Native, could of had a fully native IDE and tooling by now and purged reliance on the JVM.

They could have bought out Cursor early on too.

moishe_szyslak 52 minutes ago | parent

Oh I very much doubt Cursor ever considered selling to a small shop in eastern Europe.

giancarlostoro 25 minutes ago | parent

Cause Cursor was so massive? JetBrains is not just some random niche company, they're used in 88 companies out of the Fortune 100, that's nothing to sneeze at.

jadar 1 hour ago | parent

I still haven’t found an IDE that I feel really helps me develop with AI better than the command line. I have built bespoke tools that work the way I want. But a really good integrated solution would blow my current workflow out of the water. No one seems to have built an IDE with deep support for worktrees, parallel session, walking me thru diffs, and optionally handing control back to me to write the occasional hand-written code myself. Plus most of my work is done on mobile, so Jetbrains has an amazing opportunity…but they seem to be chasing the competition instead of focusing on their moat.

the__alchemist 1 hour ago | parent

It feels like JB is trying that, but it hasn't materialized in a way I understand yet; they have a handful of AI tools, and I don't fully understand them at this point, nor how they integrate and what roles they fill. (June, Air, AI asssistant, AI autocomplete)

thr0w 1 hour ago | parent

Sublime was/is still the best, unfortunately had to finally abandon it due to lack of first-class agent support. Hard to find something that emphasizes core text editing first and that doesn't constantly have some new update to apply on start that may break or change something.

ipaddr 1 hour ago | parent

Using Claude to write and sublime to review isn't a bad combo.

caaqil 1 hour ago | parent

> most of my work is done on mobile

Can anything serious/complex be done on mobile? I'm genuinely curious. It's seems bizzare in the context of IDE and tooling discussion.

drchickensalad 44 minutes ago | parent

I'm not sure what the problem is after rereading their post? All you need to support everything they said is a remote connection to a heirarchy of worktree-supporting sessions per project, with each having a proper scrolling feed of agent actions taken and your input box.

gaybees 1 hour ago | parent

Maybe something like delta? This is still pretty new from the folks that make Zed, but looks promising and would address some of the things you mention https://delta.dev/

alfg 1 hour ago | parent

Same. I feel like JetBrains has an advantage here, so I'm hoping they're working on something compelling. The traditional IDE setup is quickly dying.

I'm usually working between VSCode and Codex/Claude Code at the same time, but find myself mostly in latter these days.

poncho_romero 1 hour ago | parent

I think this is what JetBrains Air is supposed to be. I haven't had a chance to test it but it seems promising.

https://www.jetbrains.com/air/

quantiq 1 hour ago | parent

It still suffers the same problems as Junie, which is that their harness is far too bloated.

xnorswap 1 hour ago | parent

Right now there's a huge friction with IDEs, that if I have it open while claude is working on something, then any caches it has get stale very quickly, and it churns processing trying to keep up with edits.

Any leverage that claude could benefit from LSPs or language/AST MCPs is undone by that tooling not being able to keep up or stay fresh, so the IDE just "runs hot" for no purpose.

Which means I'm incentivised to close my IDE while claude is working, and now I've got used to not looking at the code.

Like you, I really want a system that works better. I want claude to search and edit through better tooling, it would be faster, more accurate, and should in theory be able to leverage compilers to apply edits better and more accurately.

I don't want claude wasting an awful lot of time grepping for things that a compiler cache can answer, but if that compiler cache can't keep up then it's actively harmful.

I'm sure there must be a better way, there must be a way to have smarter more change-aware cache invalidation, and smarter more cache-aware claude tool use, but so far none has happened.

Long term I'm sure the pairing will emerge, but unfortunately I don't think that's going to come from the IDE vendor side, it'll have to come out of some harness research lab, where Anthropic or a competitor finds a way to reliably leverage this stuff for a speed and accuracy boost.

It's completely bonkers to me that an LLM can almost "natively" read profiler output, but doing so involves vast amounts of text and context ingestion, when there are real tools sitting there that it ignores in preference for either reading vast amounts or iffy python one-shot scripts to parse stuff.

linuxftw 1 hour ago | parent

Cursor has support for work trees, parallel chats, will walk you through diffs line by line. This is what I primarily use for the walking through diffs feature. If I need something to just throw over the wall, I fire up claude.

jt2190 1 hour ago | parent

I’m trying to contextualize this information. JetBrains isn’t publicly traded best as I can tell, and these numbers come from other public filings:

> Figures are the company's own (unconsolidated) statutory statements filed with the Czech business register…

Are these as reliable as the U.S. 10K or its European equivalent?

I assume that a company like JetBrains would be investing in shifting products around A.I., so it doesn’t seem too surprising that they don’t report a profit for 2025.

rfgplk 1 hour ago | parent

https://or.justice.cz/ias/ui/rejstrik-$firma?p%3A%3Asubmit=x...

then Sbirka listin and download the filings. It's all in Czech so put it through GPT for translation

Summary:

JetBrains s.r.o. went negative because a large foreign-exchange loss overwhelmed a much smaller operating profit. The report explicitly identifies CZK 1.516 billion of currency losses caused by the Czech koruna strengthening against major foreign currencies. But “it was just accounting” would be incomplete: operating profit also fell 63.2%. These accounts use Czech accounting rules, not IFRS.

So two separate things happened: operations deteriorated by CZK 1.291 billion, and the financial result deteriorated by CZK 2.016 billion. Lower taxes cushioned the fall rather than causing it. Approximately 61% of the deterioration before tax came from the financial section and 39% from operations.

For cash generation, the reported operating cash flow is positive—but requires caution. It increased from CZK 5.059 billion to CZK 6.353 billion. However, the 2025 statement includes CZK 6.672 billion of positive net working-capital adjustments, while its before-working-capital subtotal is negative CZK 60.926 million. The positive final figure therefore should not be read as CZK 6.353 billion of recurring cash earnings.

Removing only that disclosed currency loss would produce CZK 1,191.121 million of profit before tax. That is a mechanical sensitivity calculation—not an IFRS profit figure or a fully currency-neutral result. It leaves derivative gains and all other reported amounts unchanged, and it should not be treated as adjusted after-tax profit. The report says the 2025 “other financial income” line consists mainly of derivative income.

serial_dev 1 hour ago | parent

They only need to have some hundreds of billions of loss extra, and they might be the next big thing!

conradfr 1 hour ago | parent

A bit tongue-in-cheek but I'm amazed by people that don't open an IDE or look at code. Are you paid to press enter at anything that Claude present to you?

Personally I usually use Claude inside the Jetbrain's IDE terminal, even if I code by hand obviously less. I still like using the diff, navigation, quick access to any file path for my prompt etc but maybe that won't last.

(edit: although I currently use an old perpetual fallback license because I didn't like the last price increase especially as they slowly remove what I like in the UI)

ipsod 1 hour ago | parent

I'm paid to produce software that has features and works.

Nobody cares how I get there or how ugly the code is. They care how fast I can do it and how reliable the software is.

I look at code sometimes, in down time, to see what's been done terribly by AI, and to fix it and hopefully fix the process so that things don't get done terribly in that particular way in the future.

swozey 1 hour ago | parent

Whats your YOE, like when did you enter tech as a SWE?

This shouldn't be normalized for you yet unless you're at a faang pushing this at the edge and new to the field, cause this isn't what we used to do 2 years ago.

If you're happy with the ai slop $$$ job more power to you but that isn't the entire field and there used to be (and hopefully still are) good and fun engineering jobs.

Contrary to popular normie belief, no not everyone wants to work at the Metas and OpenAIs and for good reason.

edit: Guys a literal business owner writing code for his own business, christ, what a waste of my time. So instead of hiring actual engineers you try to make it sound like you're employed as a software engineer and your experience is remotely normal. You are the literal business owner not filling seats because you're using AI.

"I'm paid to just shut up and code, baby!"

Yeah, that isn't a real SWE job, bud, don't make comments like you're in the trenches.

ipsod 56 minutes ago | parent

YOE is ~30, from my first PHP app to present. I've spent somewhere between 5 and 80 hours a week coding for the past 30 years, mostly self-employed, writing tools and creating custom CNC machines/robots for my own business, but more recently doing same thing for a company.

I still get to do some coding, where there are safety-critical production systems, but the work is mostly tooling that gets us to that point or supports the business otherwise.

It's an awesome job. Couldn't be funner, pretty much, except on data collection days. I get high level tasks, or come up with my own, and find or build solutions - no more running a whole business, doing production, keeping books, shipping orders, doing customer support - I only do the stuff I like.

poncho_romero 1 hour ago | parent

It's not about "how ugly the code is". Poor solutions heaped on top of poor solutions can result in a system with real users and intractable issues. I'm all for AI, but not reviewing the code seems likely to cause issues long term.

ipsod 1 hour ago | parent

Well, I used to pay more attention to the code, and then I found that if I spent more tokens having the AI review its work than actually creating new features, I was able to get more, better work done.

The AI review stage is where I've found prompting matters a lot more than that initial prototyping phase. I've iterated on prompts and tooling that help the AI keep the codebase clean-ish.

PunchyHamster 35 minutes ago | parent

> Well, I used to pay more attention to the code, and then I found that if I spent more tokens having the AI review its work than actually creating new features, I was able to get more, better work done.

Of course it did. Because reviewing code thoroughly is harder than writing it.

Writing only consists of "making sure it does the task", reviewer have to understand code first, check if it does the task, then check whether it doesn't affect something else negatively (and it can be meta things like "doesn't adhere to project style", even if technical side is correct)

patwolf 1 hour ago | parent

I used to use Claude inside of a terminal within Webstorm until I realized I rarely looked at the code in the IDE. Instead I was creating draft PRs and reviewing the code in github. Now I use claude inside of herdr, and I appreciate having more screen real estate devoted to claude. As a long-time Jetbrains subscriber it pains me to stop using it. But at this point, I'm not sure what they could come up with that would be compelling enough for me to switch back.

cmrdporcupine 1 hour ago | parent

Their coding agent "Junie" is actually really good. The problem is they force you through only a few curated models. And try to funnel you through them to subscribe to do it, too. It's not like Pi or opencode that lets you just point at an OpenAI API endpoint and then choose whatever model. If I recall you can even actually use local models, or openrouter etc, but only use the specific model variants from their curated list. It's insane. They tried to stick themselves in the middle, and failed. Nobody will use it.

They've also done so many pivots on AI, all of them weakly and annoyingly done. They couldn't even pull of FiTM copilot well, they were super late on it and it had all sort of bugs.

They could have just taken the loss and written an amazing GUI coding agent that integrated well with their IDE -- amazing integrations with their refactorings, etc. -- but that played well in other people's ecosystems but they refused and tried to own the whole pipe. Or something. They just confused me.

Their latest attempt is to allow you to connect to and run other people's agent harnesses inside the IDE and it works well enough but it wasn't enough to grab me since I (like you) use herdr on another machine to do the coding.

I've been using their products since ~IDEA 3.x. Almost my entire 25+ year career really. My fingers are wedded to their keystrokes.

t_mahmood 11 minutes ago | parent

You can actually configure the ide with any open ai compatible endpoint, I use llma and it lists all the models that I have currently installed, works well. Or am I missing your point?

cmrdporcupine 7 minutes ago | parent

Junie in particular, or just their various other "AI Assistant" / "Chat" things? They have multiple confusing overlapping products/modes going on. "JetBrains AI" -- which may or may not be same as "Junie"?, "AI Chat", then there's the "Agents" tab which integrates outside coding agents.

user43928 1 hour ago | parent

Using a CLI coding agent in your IDE's terminal is a terrible way to view conversation history and works poorly for organizing multiple conversations.

It only fits a hands-on, merely AI-assisted development approach, on one feature at a time, that is not typically productive compared to agentic development.

You might disagree, but you'll find that the proponents of the hands-on approach are losing ground every month as AI gets better at working autonomously.

conradfr 1 hour ago | parent

I'll admit I'm currently not up to speed on having multiple features worked at the same time, with git worktrees etc.

surgical_fire 1 hour ago | parent

Except surrendering cognitive control over the system being built makes things worse.

Claude constantly makes poor architectural decisions, adds unnecessary and costly checks, makes wrong assumptions, etc.

Doesn't take the value out of LLMs writing code, but they need to be properly steered and reasoned with. How will you do so if you don't even browse the code it generates.

I always suspect that the people all in fully agentic codig like this are mostly creating prototypes, half-assed copies of existing products, etc.

I am glad to not work in such an environment.

user43928 42 minutes ago | parent

You'd be wrong, I'm working on a paid mobile app, with the express goal of delivering a better product than existing competitors.

I've put like 500 hours of work into it over the last 6 months, besides my full-time software engineering job.

Frankly I think I have more experience than most here at using AI.

For me it works very well to just have a conversation with the agent in order to understand issues and steer it.

Essentially I would ask the question I would otherwise try to answer by reading the code.

Obviously, this has the downside that sometimes you miss things that would be obvious when reading and understanding all the code.

Since that can take a lot of time, it is still more efficient for me to instead QA test functionality and address issues I notice during actual use.

lemagedurage 54 minutes ago | parent

I'm expecting IDEs to adapt to new workflows, albeit very slowly.

There is potential to build a better UI than what's constrained within a CLI's grid of characters.

bsoqk 1 hour ago | parent

>Are you paid to press enter at anything that Claude present to you?

I'm paid to create a product. If Claude does so without me having to look at the code, then that's what I'm being paid to do.

lemagedurage 58 minutes ago | parent

You could be implicitly paid to understand what you're delivering and reading code could be a way to achieve that.

etatester 50 minutes ago | parent

I think you're paid to deliver. Lots of developers for decades have delivered crap that looks good on the surface and is otherwise unmaintainable. Now we're reaching the point where "everyone can code" and review queues are getting too long, with the result of many PRs being yoloed.

This of course varies by company but this is clearly where it's headed: bot pushes, bot reviews, you look at the PR title and click merge.

steve1977 38 minutes ago | parent

But then it's really Claude that is creating the product. What is your part?

wildrhythms 37 minutes ago | parent

To fix it later :)

vel0city 1 hour ago | parent

When you give a ticket to a jr developer, do you look over their shoulder the entire time they write the code? Or do pause to answer questions, give feedback on how to go about a task, and review their results?

cedws 1 hour ago | parent

What do you expect when management pressures engineers to tokenmaxx? This is a product of their doing.

ivanjermakov 1 hour ago | parent

JetBrains still has best tooling for previewing changes, resolving conflicts, git integration. I get that vibe coders not necessarily need all that but it's the best class tooling money can buy.

sporedro 1 hour ago | parent

I’m sure there are people who aren’t looking at the code at all. But for those that are I guess I’m wondering why bother with an IDE anymore? I’m finding I can just review everything I need to with a text editor like Neovim now. Even GitHub review is probably good enough for people.

lnrd 56 minutes ago | parent

Personally I don't use CLI anymore, Codex app is very good and it starts to look like how IDEs will be in the future. You can review code in a GitHub style diff and leave inline comments (super useful), have multiple agents work in parallel with or without worktrees, plus there is very good code navigation (especially if you ask followup clarification questions that will link to other parts of code).

etothet 53 minutes ago | parent

Related, it amazes me how many seasoned developers don't know how to do basic tasks in their editor/IDE with the keyboard and instead rely on their mouse. Most people don't need to be super users, but it baffles me when I see a developer who hasn't at least learned the keyboard shortcuts for opening files and jumping to functions/methods, etc.

cosmic_cheese 45 minutes ago | parent

I’m only a mild keyboard user in IDEs, but I think I’d go mad if the keyboard shortcuts for quick open, jump to line, jump to function, etc suddenly disappeared.

fg137 52 minutes ago | parent

You will be surprised by how many professional software engineers don't read their code or care these days.

I have seen a bubble sort function in a PR from an engineer with 10 years of experience. Meanwhile sort from standard library is easily available with one single line.

The bar has become as low as "it works" without considering what's in the code or whether the entire feature should even exist at all.

P.S. that same engineer sent out a PR of 200-file feature. The PR is so large that it freezes the latest MacBook Pro if you try to read it. Nobody reviewed it and he merged it himself. Nobody uses that feature, and nobody in the teams wants to maintain it. Now we are considering scrapping it.

callc 22 minutes ago | parent

It’s so easy to generate a pile of crap now that it “just works” as you say.

Quality, maintainability, simplicity, understandability, flexibility etc all still matter at $DAY_JOB, where you’ve got paying customers. We’ve got a responsibility to write good software that adds to people’s lives.

I’d recommend to try to raise the bar. Commit messages written by humans, no PRs above a certain size, any PR needs an introduction / explanation by author first for the reviewers.

alkonaut 8 minutes ago | parent

The thing is: people quickly discover that even mediocre LLM-code with a mediocre LLM-review, is still better quality than what they hand wrote and hand-reviewed.

So it's already an improvement. Should it be manually read, comprehended, reviewed? Probably. But they can get to an improvement over what they did 2 years ago, with basically no effort. And then they can get a little bit further, with massive effort?

The "LLM-yolo" is a big knee in the cost/benefit curve. It's an improvement over their "old code". The only drawback is: it's still containing bugs, and now no one understands them. But that's not hitting them until that code has aged somewhat, so a year or two down the line.

Merad 46 minutes ago | parent

If you need to review every edit that claude wants to make what's the point in using it? We're now treating it basically like a junior dev. Do our best to make sure that it's on the right path (leaning hard on the superpowers plugin) then let it work and look at the result. Though even that review is heavily AI assisted now. Our leadership has mandated that everything that can be done by AI, should be done by AI. We've only been in that mode for a couple of months but I'm starting to think that it's plausible with proper human steering and oversight.

kgeist 24 minutes ago | parent

I do look at the code and have to correct Claude most of the time, but I've noticed that with AI-assisted coding, I mostly look at the diffs when i'm inside IntelliJ. I don't need a pricey full-fledged IDE to just look at files and their diffs.

hmokiguess 16 minutes ago | parent

> Are you paid to press enter at anything that Claude present to you?

I mean, sometimes work falls exactly at the tool's strongest suit/match.

I am trying to think of what a comparison here could be but, for example, I remember early days in my career where pretty much 80% of the work was writing boilerplate and using scaffolding/generator tools, plugging them in the various plumbing and pipes of the stack, and just ticking boxes through Jira

Lots of "CRUD" and/or similar "recipe" type of work that was really just turning your brain off and needed that grunt labour force

You may ask: why is the person even needed?

My answer is the same as before: I don't know, I didn't know why were they needed back them either, felt like all could be automated as well, maybe the cost to invest in automating and mapping that all out was never a priority and the ROI math was "good enough" for the business while leadership had other north stars they were worried about?

epolanski 13 minutes ago | parent

I'm slowly accepting that this is the new reality.

I've spent 1 month between august and early september writing some of the best code of my life. LLMs only provided feedback, I wrote all the code manually, still remember it by heart.

I was very delighted by the many architectural iterations that led to it. 9 files, around 10k lines of code (of those, 7k tests).

By the end of super funny exercise I kinda realized that if I had the same feature vibe coded it would've been better. I would've done much more and progressed more feature wise.

I just feel stupid hand writing my code.

It doesn't help that I work with stellar individual contributors. All of my team mates (except a junior) are either all former faang or contributed to projects we all use (from the TypeScript compiler to Linux). And they are all abandoning if not spearheading the abandonment of reading code. I'm talking people that truly loved the technical aspect of it and excelled in it.

I just feel stupid, like I'm carrying a weight that I should abandon.

Comments like yours feel would've made sense 6 months ago, but now are crumbling.

Software is essentially so cheap and throwaway nowadays that letting LLMs write it is imperative. When you find your use cases you start reviewing it or rewriting it thoroughly.

tombert 12 minutes ago | parent

I am mostly happy with Neovim with an LSP integration. I'm not going to say it's "lighter" or anything because rust-analyzer isn't exactly "small", but it is a simpler, and IMO "cleaner" interface. Also completely free.

TacticalCoder 11 minutes ago | parent

> Are you paid to press enter at anything that Claude present to you?

And seen that JetBrains revenues still grew 6% YOY, it looks like after all there are still developers paying for an IDE.

I thought that by now, according to the AI kool-aid drinkers, there wouldn't be any developer anymore?

hombre_fatal 9 minutes ago | parent

I keep lazygit open next to each Claude/Codex session that's working on a change, but over time scrolling the changes has gone from necessary to just out of curiosity.

At this point of 2026, if you're reading code and still catching things, then the problem was before the code was written. You should have decided more high level preferences like invariants before the work began.

And this is a good thing.

ganksalot 2 minutes ago | parent

you think these guys press enter?

olejorgenb 1 hour ago | parent

Jetbrains lost our entire (small) team a few years back when they completely neglected (no, to minimal progress for years) their typehint support in PyCharm. I think they now finally have caught up somewhat judging from the updated on all the issues in youtrack I'm still subscribed to.

zdc1 1 hour ago | parent

The real surprise is how small their balance sheet is given they're such a well known and loved name. 16m CZK is 0.7m USD annual revenue.

There are companies where you'd rather be the owner, and others where you'd rather be an employee, or a customer. I think the JetBrain's customers are the real winners in this one.

jen20 1 hour ago | parent

> 6m CZK is 0.7m USD annual revenue.

It's 16,000 * 1 million CZK, so ~730m USD, no?

borplk 1 hour ago | parent

0.7M USD annual revenue for Jetbrains? That can't be right. Their annual revenue is 400M+ USD from my quick search.

rfgplk 1 hour ago | parent

The metric itself is in millions, so the value is 16 billion CZK ~= 738 million USD

throwaway2037 1 hour ago | parent

16,000 * 1,000,000 -> 16,000,000,000 -> 16B CZK ~= 738M USD

zkmon 1 hour ago | parent

An IDE connects a human coder to the development process. If the role of that coder changes in that process, the IDE connection is not going to be as heavy as it used to be.

xmpir 1 hour ago | parent

Impressive European business with ~750m USD in revenues and global footprint. Hope they innovate themselves into profitability again

chii 1 hour ago | parent

The new AI script-kiddies might not be in the target market for purchasing an IDE, so i think their customer base may potentially be shrinking.

Which is a shame really - this is similar to old blacksmithing tools.

havblue 1 hour ago | parent

It isn't as much the price of a license as much as the time it takes to get approval for newer engineers and contractors. You can just say, "we use vs code with these extensions and wsl2" and the discussion is over.

micromacrofoot 1 hour ago | parent

All the air is getting sucked out of software companies due to AI, I'm seeing it happen in a number of places. Though in this case it may be due to their own AI investment on internal projects.

leobuskin 1 hour ago | parent

It's purely management fault, it happened around 2022-2023. They had all the chances to become a great agentic IDE/harness at some point, if they would start in time, support plugin developers, allocate a proper team instead of 2 people and some semi-random internships. A lot of users were questioning this publicly and privately with them, we all knew how it will end this way. JetBrains lost, no one wants their Junie in 2026 (and didn't want in 2024-2025, whatever was the name of the integration at that time, it was awful). I was on Ultimate Plan since 2012, appx. I quit entirely in 2024. They asked to answer a few surveys over the last few years - even the questions there were far from reality. RIP, JetBrains, it's mostly unrecoverable at this point.

dhruv_ahuja 1 hour ago | parent

What IDEs and harnesses do you use now? I assume you would have had a lot of your classic coding workflows dependant on the jetbrains suite

leobuskin 1 hour ago | parent

CC + my own custom tools, I don't see any reason to pay for devtools in 2026 (same as trying to monetize them, or even just share/distribute). My first custom solution was built on top of JB's core in early 2024, btw, but not any more. JetBrains "suite" doesn't really lock you in, it's more like "aura" of the product itself that made me attached for almost 13 years (I never was able to switch, I still think VS Code is so ugly and counter-intuitive in comparison with JB).

dncornholio 36 minutes ago | parent

I have zero clue what you are talking about and I use Jetbrains products every day. PHPStorm is still the default IDE for many developers.

kgeist 7 minutes ago | parent

Their management decisions are strange, right. They had a nice tool called Upsource, we used it for code reviews. Then they sunset it and told us to use JetBrains Space instead. After we migrated to JetBrains Space, they said, oh wait, we sunset it too. So we had to migrate to GitLab. And now, with AI-assisted coding, I don't even need their IDE anymore, because I mostly look at diffs. And that kinda brings us back to Upsource. That thing could have been grown to support AI-assisted development, like, get rid of all the heavy IDE stuff, and just have a place for code reviewing agents' output and merging things. Somewhat like GitLab Lite but fully agentic-oriented. I think it would have covered 99% of our use cases.

I heard rumors JetBrains started going downhill around 2022-2023 because they severed ties with employees in Russia's St. Petersburg, which housed their R&D and all (although many employees were relocated but who knows).

swader999 1 hour ago | parent

This along with stack overflow seems to be the end of an era. Stack overflow had my back and JetBrains was like a super magical tool that I could tackle code bases with.

synthc 1 hour ago | parent

I would love if the Jetbrains IDE's got really good agent integration, all their code analysis could have amazing synergy with LLM's, Unfortunatly for now I disabled all AI features as it was slowing my IDE (JetBrains) to a crawl.

pelagicAustral 1 hour ago | parent

They need to put a whole lot of love in Junie, but even at that Warp is already miles ahead... so playing catch up is going to be a tough one.

igleria 1 hour ago | parent

loss size must be correlated with the memory usage of webstorm on my work machine...

stingraycharles 1 hour ago | parent

That’s interesting, as we have just completed a huge migration of our CI/CD infrastructure off Teamcity, for plenty of reasons but “we’re paying a shit ton of money for this and it’s a pain in the ass” was a major one.

They seem to be very bloated and unable to modernize their product lines.

ActionHank 1 hour ago | parent

Interesting, what did you migrate to? We've had mixed results in reliability between ADO and Github actions.

jazdw 1 hour ago | parent

I've been thinking about doing the same, what did you migrate to? I was thinking GitHub actions but the outage yesterday reinforced that it might be a bad idea.

stingraycharles 1 hour ago | parent

We migrated to buildkite, as it allowed self hosted agents and lots of “building blocks” to extend stuff ourselves.

One of the things we really use heavily is dynamic pipelines, as we have a lot of different stuff.

In teamcity, we had close to 1k build configs, and were able to replace this with about 20 dynamic pipelines in buildkite.

We did need to do a bunch of plumbing, but in this age of AI it means our developers don’t have to rely on devops anymore to get their stuff done to make all this work.

One of the problems was that our devs were “afraid” to alter teamcity build configs, as it all was more fragile than it should be and they were afraid to break stuff.

Teamcity allows for customization with plugins, but all that is so bloated with either Java or Kotlin and requires a shitton of domain specific knowledge to pull off.

Buildkite is much simpler with YAML and their plugin infrastructure which is effectively just hooks into scripts. It’s well designed.

drchickensalad 39 minutes ago | parent

I agree, build kite really blew me away. I know everyone tried to make simple yet powerful abstractions but it usually fails; build kite was the opposite where it was surprisingly better than I expected

rfgplk 1 hour ago | parent

No disrespect meant, but I don't see how companies like JetBrains can survive (and I've read their financial statements, their revenue growth is still decent). All their revenue comes from products and services that are effectively a long-form agentic session, proven by how many OSS replicas of their stack is out there. Their Junie agent (itself a replica of all other agents on the market) can ITSELF be replicated in a few dozen prompts, as evidenced by the 1000+ GitHub agent repos out there, most of whom are operated by a single college student. What's worse is that JetBrains' primary customer base is supposed to be composed of technical users and developers, the exact cohort that should be skilled enough to use LLMs to replicate their services for effectively zero cost. I guess the only thing that's saving them is inertia and goodwill.

i2km 1 hour ago | parent

Around a year ago, the org I was working for ditched jetbrains (including teamcity) due to alleged Russian links of some of the founders/owners of jetbrains.

Never looked into it further, but might be a factor...

TehCorwiz 1 hour ago | parent

They put out multiple statements in support of Ukraine. They also indefinitely closed their Russian offices.

https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/03/11/jetbrains-stateme...

https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/12/06/update-on-jetbrai...

0xy 1 hour ago | parent

I am a long time JetBrains subscriber to the all products pack. Their response to recent AI events has been extremely lackluster and I've given them this feedback directly, in feedback and otherwise.

I doubt I will remain a subscriber for the entirety of next year.

Let's look at their AI product, it suuuuucks. They released it, and it literally did not function. I purchased it, and it kept giving me licensing errors. Contacted support and they couldn't tell me anything. Okay, cool, cancel it and refund me. This is useless.

That was a while ago. Today, it still sucks. AI Chat is a bolted-on afterthought that looks like a hackathon project and functions like one. Isn't deeply embedded in the editors. Clunky. Slow. Ugly to look at. Doesn't integrate nicely with all the tools. No native AI plugins, you're forced into their garbage.

What are they DOING?!?

vehemenz 1 hour ago | parent

It's amazing that it even costs extra. Basic functionality shouldn't cost an extra fee, period.

I'm paying hundreds of dollars to use the IDE. The least they could do is integrate well with other harnesses (like every other text editor in the world does).

mikemarsh 1 hour ago | parent

Hopefully this is a wake-up call for them to drop the AI hype-chasing and refocus on making the best IDEs for us dinosaurs who, for whatever crazy reason, still code by hand and appreciate solid (deterministic) tools to help us out.

On a very related note, I'm probably very late to this discussion, but has anyone else noticed autocomplete in JetBrains products has gotten significantly worse after the advent of LLMs? It would previously take into account type signatures and all kinds of context, now it's clearly just a very minimal next token generator, often producing code that doesn't even compile.

shevy-java 1 hour ago | parent

Seems as if their expenditures increased a little bit. I don't think this is huge, since they did not perform that well in 2022 either.

icar 1 hour ago | parent

If you open a terminal in their IDEs, top right button, Claude Code, enable MCP. For me, it's the best mix of the two worlds.

pjmlp 1 hour ago | parent

So VSCode is actually having an impact, most likely.

throwaway2037 1 hour ago | parent

What caused "Net Financing Costs" to skyrocket? Here is a historical view: https://www.helgilibrary.com/companies/jetbrains/net-financi...

tegeek 1 hour ago | parent

So a stable company like JetBrains, which sells developer tools and has extensive experience in compilers, ended up with a net financial loss. Meanwhile, Cursor—a startup only a few years old, founded by students, built on a VS Code fork, and primarily powered by OpenAI's API—was valued at $60 billion.

AIblemblio 58 minutes ago | parent

By Musk, from a company who was doing an IPO and has to deliver flashy things fast.

Don't overestimate the relevance to this.

vinyl7 56 minutes ago | parent

capitalism optimizes for crap

bgilroy26 17 minutes ago | parent

This financial loss is a report at a point in time about that point in time. A company's valuation is also reported at a point in time but it represents an aggregation of how much profit the company might generate across time (please forgive the layman's understanding). They are apples and oranges.

mastermage 56 minutes ago | parent

They probably have very good financial cushions. One year of losses is nothing to a company like that.

cowlevel 54 minutes ago | parent

Either a whole lot of money is about to be sucked out of markets or money is about to massively devalue. This is the bill coming due for the zero interest rate years, seen from one company's vantage point.

gjvc 46 minutes ago | parent

they've made a series of customer-hostile decisions in the past few years, so this investment is likely this freight train gathering pace

devy 45 minutes ago | parent

JetBrains is a privately held s.r.o. (LLC equivalent in the Czech Republic), I wonder where have Helgi Library gather so much detailed financial data from about them?

tiffanyh 36 minutes ago | parent

I thought JetBrains is a private/bootstrapped company.

Where are these financials coming from?

mathgladiator 34 minutes ago | parent

I loved IntelliJ for Java, but I cancelled as I have been AI-pilled to never need to write code again.

threecheese 34 minutes ago | parent

This tracks with what I've observed, as a fan-and-sometimes-user. They look to be funding a skunk works - which started with their version of Cursor (Jules or something), which wasn't great.

They are working on a cli agent; I tried it, but it silently injected hooks into all my other cli agents to re-target JB inference APIs, which caused me to burn through my JB tokens in like two minutes and b0rked all my running agent sessions.

They are working on a spec-driven thing, which I attempted to try but getting burned by the cli thing I abandoned it. It looks really interesting - it's a meta-harness, built and shipped with one of the Spec-Something frameworks, where you define your own specs for your projects, kinda like snake-eating-it-own-tail-of-specs. If spec-driven is The Future, they are at least trying.

There have been a few other things I can't recall, but my observation is that they are taking generative AI seriously as an existential threat, and probably (as another poster here put it) "heating the office burning tokens".

someperson 21 minutes ago | parent

I cancelled my JetBrains subscription a year ago when they announced price increases.

The quality of their software has been falling despite all recurring revenue. I used JetBrains for almost a decade because it just worked. JetBrains Toolbox is some of the worst software I've used, it causes more problems that it solves for me.

Needing to install a different IDE per language is also something I dislike about JetBrains, but not a deal breaker.

duckiec 16 minutes ago | parent

Its pretty sad because JetBrains products are great ive been using them for a while and its even free for students. VSC is great but i feel like JB products are more refined since I code in Go and Python.

1a527dd5 15 minutes ago | parent

I don't think this is related to AI. Pre-AI I thought for many years that they have spread themselves too wide and thin. A new IDE pretty much every six months. Unsustainable whilst ignoring their existing customers and products. I think it's inevitable that they've ended up here.

I think they've started to realise that and are trying to reign it in with 'Fleet' and 'Code With Me' deprecations.

denis-nikomo 12 minutes ago | parent

That is an interesting piece of reporting.

First, revenue is growing, assets - too. I believe company does some money burning to compete. According to the prev years nett income, they should have collected a reasonable amount of money so a little money burn doesn't harm.

Second, the Gross Profit is only 72.1m whereas the Revenue is 675m. That means, 600m is somewhere in the COGS. Not sure how to read this.

hn_submit 8 minutes ago | parent

I hate the JetBrains IDE, which is written in Java. Why can't they re-write it in C++ using Qt or wxWidgets?

butz 5 minutes ago | parent

Keep rounding UI and adding more AI, and finances will keep going down.