72 points geox 1 hour ago 35 comments

xvxvx 1 hour ago | parent

I’m quite shocked that this was even open to abuse to begin with. Clearly, the US has very strict immigration and green card laws. So enforcement has been lax? Or were deals made under the table with these companies and previous administrations?

readthenotes1 47 minutes ago | parent

It's been abused for decades, if you're of the mindset that hiring H1B workers for cheaper is an abuse of the system instead of the intended result.

warkdarrior 12 minutes ago | parent

H1B != green card

lenerdenator 13 minutes ago | parent

An individual immigrant violating US immigration law is dealt with very strictly.

A money-making interest violating US immigration law is a completely different matter, because capital loves nothing more than cheap labor and is willing to subject labor to the ordeal of being the individual immigrant dealing with US immigration law, so long as they don't cost as much as Americans.

geraldwhen 13 minutes ago | parent

Hmm? Green card fraud is pretty easy and very common. You put out an ad for the job role. Then you sort the fake resumes to the top and fail them in the interview.

Boom, perm green card. Every big company does it.

foldr 10 minutes ago | parent

I don't think you meant to write 'green card' there? At least, what you've written makes absolutely no sense as a description of how a green card might fraudulently be obtained.

geraldwhen 4 minutes ago | parent

PERM is an employment based green card that requires a labor market test. In my own experience, I’ve been part of fake job postings and interviews.

Effectively you put the persons role up as a job ad, then fail a few people in the interview and that’s all it takes for PERM.

They weren’t real interviews. The job postings wasn’t real. I interviewed people so someone on the team already could get a PERM.

calculatte 10 minutes ago | parent

Visa programs have been widely abused for decades. This just addresses the PERM portion for a few companies. The abuses of the OPT, CPT programs are insidious and have resulted in a job market that completely disincentives the hiring of new grad Americans. It's not uncommon to find job postings that are "H1B only". Companies won't even consider citizens. H1B, H4 EAD have become a way for ethnic nepotism and kickback programs to operate without consequences and get American companies to fire Americans in favor of foreign workers. This is just the smallest step in the right direction.

ChrisArchitect 58 minutes ago | parent

ramijames 29 minutes ago | parent

Microsoft isn't the biggest user of this program, Amazon is: https://miserablyunemployed.com/market/h1b

glenngillen 8 minutes ago | parent

That's for H1B immigration visa applications. Those are not green cards.

projectileboy 28 minutes ago | parent

I’m sure the tech CEOs thought they would have some kind of “most favored” status by ingratiating themselves, but everyone who has ever buddied up with a dictator eventually finds out that they too are disposable.

adamiscool8 19 minutes ago | parent

Democratically elected officials acting in the interest of domestic labor <> tech CEOs burned by a dictator

gchamonlive 16 minutes ago | parent

> Democratically elected officials acting in the interest of domestic labor

Can you really say this with a straight face about trump?

nancyminusone 8 minutes ago | parent

Unfortunately the democratically elected part is mostly true.

gchamonlive 5 minutes ago | parent

[delayed]

tshaddox 2 minutes ago | parent

Several notable dictators came to power through elections or through the existing legal appointment process. Of course it's more common for a dictator to come to power through a revolution, military coup, or civil war, but the way a political figure originally came to hold their political position is not really relevant to determining whether they are a dictator.

pc86 4 minutes ago | parent

Which part is incorrect?

I mean that, you're either saying he wasn't democratically elected, or that this move doesn't help domestic labor. The first is objectively false, and the second is covered in the most basic college economics courses.

gchamonlive 2 minutes ago | parent

[delayed]

freejazz 14 minutes ago | parent

It's genuinely crazy to think that anything Trump does is for any interest but his own

throwaway894345 10 minutes ago | parent

Maybe you think Trump (34 counts of felony fraud for the purpose of concealing another crime, attempted election fraud, rampant insider trading, using the powers of his office to persecute political enemies, creating a secret police force to provoke riots, deploying the military against US cities, aggressive attempts to consolidate power in the executive, etc) is just a man of the people but clearly the CEOs didn’t think so or they wouldn’t have done all that embarrassing groveling at the whitehouse.

lenerdenator 16 minutes ago | parent

When you think about it, they're just dictators of their own companies. They're used to everyone doing as they say with little resistance. And of course, the first set of interests they're incentivized to look out for is their own through share grants.

They thought "hiring" a guy like them to be President would mean having a sympathetic ear for all sorts of issues that keep them from "unlocking value for shareholders", but forgot that sympathy has no place in business.

As for H1B, it's been abused and can be used to make the people in the US on that visa an indentured servant. There's definitely reforms that need to be made, and an interest in hiring people from the US that needs to be taken up, but as with all things, the guy doing it is too contemptible of a leader to look past.

shimman 9 minutes ago | parent

You think tech ceos care? Come on, this is a great way to weaken labor across the industry. Threaten current immigrants with literal concentration camps, threaten Americans by condemning them to homelessness + death while massive attacks to welfare programs continue unabated.

The only ones who lose are the workers.

pc86 2 minutes ago | parent

This is an insane comment. How does this "threaten Americans by condemning them to homelessness + death?"

coldpie 9 minutes ago | parent

Has Microsoft done much toadying? I don't recall seeing their name appear in many of the articles about tech CEOs and companies debasing themselves at Trump's feet. I've seen plenty about brown-nosing from Apple and Facebook and Amazon and obviously Musk, but I don't remember seeing much about Microsoft. I wonder if that lack of ingratiation is part of why MS is being targeted here but the other large tech companies aren't? Or maybe I just missed it.

yuck39 7 minutes ago | parent

Trump will award Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella the National Medal of Technology and Innovation at the White House today.

hereme888 7 minutes ago | parent

TDS...

midnitewarrior 19 minutes ago | parent

If the talent can't come to Microsoft, Microsoft will offshore near the talent.

sphinxterai 17 minutes ago | parent

Ya big tech firms are hiring like crazy in Canada but mostly offshore talent not local talent

accidc 13 minutes ago | parent

Mind sharing a source? Anecdotally, the Canadian job market is brutal (barring some sectors)

chad_strategic 10 minutes ago | parent

I generally find Microsoft to be talentless regardless of the location.

Full disclosure: long MSFT.

patadura 8 minutes ago | parent

Pretty much all Big Tech already have offices in Europe, Latam, India...

krautburglar 7 minutes ago | parent

As a card-carrying member of the "fuck off we're full" club, excellent.

OrvalWintermute 8 minutes ago | parent

We need clawbacks from these companies’ c suites, present and past, that were awarded compensation based on criminal practices

carefree-bob 6 minutes ago | parent

My two cents:

Private Businesses should not be able to offer citizenship as a side payment to their employees, they should stick to offering cash. If you are the french foreign legion and you want to reward military recruits with citizenship, then at least it's a government that is receiving the benefit and selling the citizenship, but private business should not be able to sell citizenship, or an easier way to get citizenship, to anyone. It's not a resource that belongs to them.