81 points gumby 1 hour ago 57 comments
alexnewman 1 hour ago | parent
radlad 1 hour ago | parent
The other 11 items in the list of 12 would probably never be hit in practice, but now that you know, you have to sort out how to handle each (even if that just means documenting, filing, or ignoring: you have to understand each of the disparate 12 issues first.)
giancarlostoro 58 minutes ago | parent
I suspect theres a lot of hours saved that are otherwise wasted by devs when some simple thing throws off their implementation completely. Basically we cant measure the saved developer hours by LLMs because it could be literally anything.
staminade 54 minutes ago | parent
I think if there is a major change in code review culture, it's not going to happen first in established engineering teams. It'll happen in startups that adopt a no-human-review policy from jump and then maintain it as they mature. I'm sure that's happening, but it's likely invisible to most studies and surveys at the moment. If it proves successful, and such companies start shipping significantly faster, the rest of the industry will be forced to adopt.
dominotw 52 minutes ago | parent
i am pretty senior. I hate code reviews so much. They are so boring, easily the most tedious part of my job. Its such a chore. Who is clinging to line-by-line review. Ppl dont really give that much about their employers.
0x20cowboy 45 minutes ago | parent
It really depends on the context. A react button background color - meh - the critical part of the backend where a new 300ms delay will cost the company millions then yeah.
dominotw 36 minutes ago | parent
these might be 1% typically
keybrd-intrrpt 21 minutes ago | parent
If it is so critical, why don't we have tests and benchmarks for it?
Oh right, because "Greg the super-coder" never wrote any of this down and it lives in his head so he can be the arbiter of change.
It was toxic before agentic coding, it's still toxic now.
Document your systems. Add tests and benchmarks for what is important.
We've always known this, we have a dozen or more textbooks written about it. But we always gave it a pass because "Greg the super-coder" was producing more value than he was hurting.
That's no longer the case. Your best coder is now Opus or Astra
sroerick 15 minutes ago | parent
yonaguska 12 minutes ago | parent
risyachka 51 minutes ago | parent
I’ve seen a few projects that heavily rely on ai with not very good (though senior) devs driving it - and its a mess. Not the code. The resulting product. Code is actually sound as ai is pretty good now.
All because ai does code reviews and dump decisions go into prod
svachalek 45 minutes ago | parent
I had it do a full audit. There were about 100k lines of tests, of which it determined about 60k were near useless. Many were overly mocked, some mocked to the point that they really weren't testing anything at all. It deleted those and wrote more expansive scenario tests to replace them, caught a lot of bugs on the way and fixed those too. Total time was about 2 hours.
I think humans need to review requirements, specifications, and test scenarios. And for some industries and uses they're still going to have to review every detail. But for a typical CRUD app, I think we're at a point where we can already set the process and quality bar higher than ever, in addition to moving faster.
KylerAce 22 minutes ago | parent
devin 5 minutes ago | parent
hgowietoi 43 minutes ago | parent
My company's leadership is oscillating every few weeks on AI goals. Their most recent story is "we're expecting developer velocity to approximately double over the new 2-3 years as people get better at using AI". But of course that's completely non sequitur. People on my team spend about 10% of their time writing code and 90% doing design and analysis. So if AI doubles our code writing velocity, then it will make us 5% faster overall.
Sharlin 35 minutes ago | parent
a34729t 30 minutes ago | parent
strulovich 11 minutes ago | parent
The point is that while good to remember, and specifically Fred Brook’s “No Silver Bullet” article about it, there are second order effects.
If coding becomes 100x cheaper, what’s going to happen next? At least to some degree, design and planning was there since coding is expensive. (Not just coding, debugging also got squashed by AI and was an expensive part of the job)
This is why the original comment seems pretty spot on, organizations will learn how to skip more phases, and startups are probably a place where this will be happening faster. (Not clearly though, a lot of big tech are happy tokenmaxxing to try and not stay behind those startups when they come)
keybrd-intrrpt 25 minutes ago | parent
But how many changes are actually serious?
I can have an agent mass-produce security bug fixes, zip through our low-priority backlog, etc.
IMO - we need to get out of our own way.
Building is cheap now. Agents are also really good at following checklists and running tests.
So instead of having individual engineers reviewing code, we need to
* Leave human review for the most impactful changes
* Get better at defining the quality bar
* Continually codify human concerns into rules or systems that can be checked against
A lot of this was touched on a few months ago with Spec-driven development becoming a hot topic when agentic coding started.
We should continue that with spec-driven review, testing, etc.
red75prime 22 minutes ago | parent
notarobot123 21 minutes ago | parent
I'm no booster but this is most of what I currently spend tokens on so it's maybe not as absurd as it sounds. Maybe those gains are possible and without having to sacrifice serious code reviews too.
tored 37 minutes ago | parent
mort96 27 minutes ago | parent
bcrosby95 17 minutes ago | parent
If you take it off too early you end up with shit and will spend weeks fixing all these baked bad assumptions your project is built on top of. I spent weeks fixing some of this shit then the LLM revived a not insignificant portion of it in a later change because it got "confused" (its words) because some of the comments it previously made were left around.
rbehrends 14 minutes ago | parent
I actually dislike traditional code review. In part this is because most of our code review tools are very cumbersome to use (GitHub's and GitLab's web interfaces in particular).
But also because humans aren't all that great at code review when it comes to correctness and security. Part of the problem is that you don't have access to the author's mental model for non-trivial changes and have to reconstruct it, otherwise your understanding of the program logic will be inadequate.
The problem is that purely agentic code review has orthogonal problems, and typically remains subpar when it comes to judging architecture and design considerations, compared to human reviewers. Both false positives and false negatives also remain a concern.
My best results so far have been with agent-assisted code review in a proper IDE, helping you to quickly construct a mental model and to analyze the underlying logic (in addition to doing a first pass for correctness issues).
hajile 14 minutes ago | parent
devin 7 minutes ago | parent
NeumannGod 48 minutes ago | parent
jefftk 47 minutes ago | parent
In this case, we're looking at a picture from 2025. The models involved in the main agent results were primarily Claude 3.5 through Sonnet 4.5, GPT-4.1 through GPT-5, and Gemini 2.5. And the paper's design means you're mostly looking at the very initial effects of deployment, before companies developed good review processes.
CharlieDigital 41 minutes ago | parent
In any non-trivial integration test scenario, it's easy to end up several times the LoC in tests compared to actual shipped code.
Second problem: different models, agents, and harnesses seem to have different tendencies and they tend to avoid touching code that is not their own unless explicitly instructed. What I mean by this: it will happily duplicate some helper method from another test file rather than pulling it out and reusing it, seemingly avoiding coupling (good kind in this case since model level changes should be propagated atomically).
Tests are where I see agents just spew absolute mountains of code.
japhyr 36 minutes ago | parent
I think this approach will continue to work for some people and orgs, but others are going to hit walls where their agents can't manage the mountains anymore. It's going to be interesting to see how people and orgs respond when that happens.
CharlieDigital 33 minutes ago | parent
> I've asked them what their plan is when 500 of their 1000 test suddenly stop passing
That's not a terrible thing; would indicate that some shared behavior is broken and -- assuming well structured code -- hopefully easy to isolate the behavior.Bigger problems to me are more practical: 1) large tests waste context both in and out, 2) large volume of tests waste CI cycles which are becoming the bottleneck.
StilesCrisis 27 minutes ago | parent
crnkofe 26 minutes ago | parent
timmmmmmay 39 minutes ago | parent
cavemandaveman 10 minutes ago | parent
jedberg 33 minutes ago | parent
Each time we move up an abstraction layer, people object, saying that nothing will work right if we move up that high in the stack. Give it time. I'll bet in 5-10 years, almost no one will look at code anymore, except in special cases.
We still have people who write in assembly, we still have people who write in C, mostly for performance reasons. Because you still need to be close to the CPU to get that last bit of performance. But in most cases, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the LLM makes bad code if it works and passes all the tests.
Granted, this is the first time we're going from deterministic to non-deterministic, but is it really? Large scale distributed systems are already non-deterministic. They create inputs and situations that programs aren't designed to handle all the time. What's a little more chaos? :)
KumaBear 31 minutes ago | parent
sroerick 25 minutes ago | parent
tracerbulletx 29 minutes ago | parent
hyperpape 28 minutes ago | parent
- the data is mostly from 2025 and earlier
- the baseline mean lines of code per month was 5017, the estimated increase was 1494 lines per worker-month
- the baseline is 5.34 PRs per month, and increased by 1.22
- the baseline mean for code review is 7.03 days
The second and third bullets are confirmation that this is old data. In late 2026, people aren't delivering 30% more lines of code. If people were just producing 30% more lines, they'd still be reading every line. My point isn't that "more lines is good". I'm worried about a few too many lines of code that no one reads. My point is that this shows the data is old.
For the latter, I'm a bit annoyed by using mean, median would be more valuable, but I think it's safe to say that the engineering culture was already pretty bad. If your average pull request sits for 7 days, you evidently don't care about shipping anything, and agents aren't going to change that.
uncivilized 5 minutes ago | parent
yipinwong 27 minutes ago | parent
yolo works when I need to focus on higher priority, and make sure things just work (though not "great").
For the latter, I use it for more like spec-driven fashion with HITL. Basically everytime it ffinishes a task, I review and then move on.
Both appraoches work. just make sure your yolo slop isn't bad and passes stuff.
LoC don't mean jack shit.
noahwardlow 23 minutes ago | parent
ravenstine 20 minutes ago | parent
the_sleaze_ 19 minutes ago | parent
I generate more beautiful code, yes.
But the longer the codebase survives the more hair and cruft it accumulates. My once beautiful logical paths get carved up by compounding requirements and edge cases.
That's what the AI was trained on. The end result - the hairy ball of wax that noone can look at sideways.
I often think of that whenever AI comes up with what I consider to be an irrational but plausible edge case.
sroerick 18 minutes ago | parent
I never have operated this way. Code reviews were a basic sanity check, a chance to implement best practices, and a chance to teach these things to juniors.
If I was concerned about something breaking, I'd duscuss test coverage.
Was I doing it wrong this whole time??
jimrandomh 16 minutes ago | parent
atleastoptimal 9 minutes ago | parent
Invariably once certain AI models in certain domains reach "full automation" quality this will happen, until now the human eyeball bottleneck is holding a leash on millions of tireless superhuman coders who have just a few narrow but egregious contextual awareness issues.
skolos 8 minutes ago | parent
Did anyone solve this problem? Any good approaches?