YHK - yet another hacker news clone

Container ship sinks in Strait of Hormuz as Iran steps up attacks

57 points MilnerRoute 1 hour ago 53 comments

nilamo 40 minutes ago | parent

We (the usa) can choose to leave at any time. Crying about the effects of your own actions while choosing not to fix it is madness. Don't push your madness on the rest of us

UncleOxidant 34 minutes ago | parent

Just think of all the trouble that just 2 dudes are causing in the world. If Putin would simply leave Ukraine and if Trump would just quietly withdraw from the aggression towards Iran things would really calm down. We'd probably get back to lower gas prices as well as lower interest rates. (but of course, neither of them have the temperament to be able to admit that they were wrong)

swiftcoder 30 minutes ago | parent

Where are the guillotines when you need them?

gertrunde 25 minutes ago | parent

I suspect it may be too late for Trump at least - he has managed to demonstrate to Iran that they have more power than they thought they did, and it may be quite difficult to return to the pre-war state of affairs.

It seems many countries around the straits are now thinking "Hmm, we can charge ships to pass through...".

I don't think that would have happened without Trump.

UncleOxidant 11 minutes ago | parent

Yeah, it's definitely not going to be back to where it was before he started his Iran debacle. He broke it. But now gaming it out it seems like him just deciding to withdraw would be the best outcome that we could probably get. Otherwise just sticking around in the area and issuing threats just causes Iran to react and that effectively keeps the SoH closed (heck, the US even closes it sometimes).

msandford 19 minutes ago | parent

A lot of it isn't about these people in particular. It's about what's happening in their countries. Like it or not Trump is more of a symptom of what's going on in the US than the cause. I know that sounds weird but the inflation that's been eating away at a middle class lifestyle for decades is most of what's getting people so riled up, and the unwillingness to reckon with that by "normal" politicians is what got Trump elected.

jl6 18 minutes ago | parent

Perhaps they are closet climate activists, because raising the price of gas significantly and persistently is realistically the only way we’re ever going to stop burning it.

bambax 15 minutes ago | parent

There's a third dude missing in that list to complete the new axis of evil: Netanyahu, without which Trump, as stupid as he may be, would probably never have attacked Iran.

everdrive 29 minutes ago | parent

It was deeply stupid for us to start an unnecessary war with Iran, but it's not clear that we can leave any time. Iran is suggesting they will charge fees to traverse the strait, (and attack shirkers) and it's also not clear that Iran has the remaining navy to successfully clear the mines.

It was incredibly stupid to start this war, but we're now fairly well stuck.

bradly 21 minutes ago | parent

I recently read a book from 2015 on the stuxnet hack and I big part of the story is how every president knew how made a military strike would go. Surreal to read now and the book gave me so much clarity on the current war.

Highly recommend if you like tech AND want some WW II forward context on Iran.

water-data-dude 17 minutes ago | parent

You forgot to mention the name of the book

malwrar 9 minutes ago | parent

Countdown to Zero Day probably! Super good book, technical without being unfriendly to casuals or inaccurate for pros.

Georgelemental 16 minutes ago | parent

I'm sure if we made a deal where we leave the Middle East entirely, and in exchange they don't charge any fees, the deal would hold

computerex 16 minutes ago | parent

> Iran is suggesting they will charge fees to traverse the strait,

That's perfectly fine. Let freedom of navigation end. The United States uses its natural resources to wreak havoc on the world, why shouldn't countries gifted with Geography not push their advantage? Particularly when there is no world order and US bombs anyone it wishes whenever it wants? Why should Iran play nice when all it got in return is US aggression? Why should any State adhere to international law when the law is only applied when it's beneficial to the world powers?

IncreasePosts 13 minutes ago | parent

Iran doesn't control the strait unilaterally. Does Oman not get a say in this?

Cyph0n 10 minutes ago | parent

When you do things like assassinate a head of state at home along with this daughter and grandchild, double-tap strike a school because AI told you so, and sink a navy show ship at sea without waiting to rescue survivors, you can’t then cry about international law and norms of sea navigation.

everdrive 8 minutes ago | parent

This feels completely oblique to the parent's comment.

deadbunny 5 minutes ago | parent

Seems like they do right now

everdrive 10 minutes ago | parent

Despite the local US politics, it's not really the US which is primarily hurt by Iran cutting off the straight. It affects Europe and Asia much more.

Cyph0n 13 minutes ago | parent

FAFO in action. They can hope and dream for another outcome, but this is the best they’ll get.

ricksunny 12 minutes ago | parent

how convenient to some for us to be placed into such an inextricable position.

paimapi 11 minutes ago | parent

I seriously doubt anything but political calculus about midterms and the sinking polling numbers for Republicans along with kickbacks from private military contracts towards certain connected members of the inner-circle went into the decision matrix for starting this war. It was never about whether or not it made sense - Fukuyama's The End of History has long been totally irrelevant, a little cherry on top of the neoliberal promise of global peace.

762236 27 minutes ago | parent

I can't decipher what you refer to with 'your'.

IncreasePosts 14 minutes ago | parent

If iran is fighting with the US, why are they attacking a ship registered in Singapore which was going between Pakistan and the UAE?

tristanj 34 minutes ago | parent

Iran is committing daily war crimes by firing missiles at civilian ships. The Geneva Convention prohibits the targeting of merchant vessels and civilian crews. The ships are not even entering Iranian territory - they're in UAE/Omani waters and are avoiding Iranian waters the entire time.

Edit: Seeing a lot of whataboutism in the replies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism . Whataboutism is the classic strategy that Soviet propagandists use to distract and avoid accountability; it's an attempt to avoid addressing the issue.

cultofmetatron 32 minutes ago | parent

didn't we like, blow up one of their schools and kill like a bunch of their kids?

762236 29 minutes ago | parent

It sounds like you're justifying Iranian war crimes. Retaliatory strikes against American military targets aren't war crimes.

kelseyfrog 27 minutes ago | parent

It's simple. When we do it, it's an accident no one could have forseen let alone stop. When they do it, it's on purpose, against international law, and must be punished.

ithkuil 19 minutes ago | parent

Are you suggesting that Iran sunk a container ship by accident?

omnicognate 26 minutes ago | parent

And then sanctioned the ICC.

nopurpose 27 minutes ago | parent

Aren't heads of state civilians too?

ithkuil 10 minutes ago | parent

That's an interesting question.

Most head of states of countries that are not military dictatorship are civilian, i.e. they are not military, but if they rule over the military (such as the American president who is commander in chief of the military) does that count as being treated as a civilian for the purposes of wartime policy?

A similar role was played by Khamenei who was commander in chief of the Iranian armed forces.

Netanyahu is also a civilian and nevertheless the ICC issued an arrest warrant for his responsibilities for the behaviour of the IDF in the war in Gaza.

The formal definition used by the ICC is "civilian superior".

Guid_NewGuid 24 minutes ago | parent

I'm sure Iran are merely interdicting and destroying enemies of the Iranian state. This is extremely normal and should not be condemned.[0] Upholding freedom of navigation is for weak states.

/s if it weren't obvious. Yes Iran is horrible, yes this is whataboutery, but they should be held to the same standard.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_strikes_on_alleg...

computerex 20 minutes ago | parent

International law is a joke. The selective application of international law is a travesty.

peri-cl 19 minutes ago | parent

The OP doesn't even say who shot at this container ship, and it's hardly contextually clear. The US itself sank two oil tankers in this conflict[0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_States_naval_block... ("Ships sunk by the United States")

bilbo0s 14 minutes ago | parent

I don't think the poster said the US and Israel don't commit war crimes. Only that Iran also commits them.

megous 5 minutes ago | parent

All we can say is that allegedly a projectile hit a ship according to the article.

Article title is typical manipulation. "Something happened" as "something else also is happening". :) Very common technique.

crikeykangaroo 18 minutes ago | parent

The United States and Israel started this war themselves (during ongoing negotiations, for the third time!), bombed and killed school children (double-tapped). If you mention international rules, try to not be a hypocrite and look at US/Israel first. The US should pack up and leave. Hell, they should leave the entire region and start focusing on domestic problems. China is building, while the US is in decline (40T in debt with nothing to show for) and tries to play imperialism.

stock_toaster 10 minutes ago | parent

I don't think "they did it first", or "two wrongs cancel out", necessarily applies to war crimes.

thegreenswede 18 minutes ago | parent

And we murdered hundreds of school children in a double strike (pretty sure your Geneva Convention has something in there about that) AND started this entire mess AND assassinated state officials (again, let's recheck the Geneva Convention) AND could end it instantly if we wanted.

MSFT_Edging 15 minutes ago | parent

Wasn't the US firing on fishing vessels in the Gulf of Mexico, then double tapping, THEN sharing the videos and bragging earlier this year?

kstenerud 11 minutes ago | parent

International law is a veneer that only works when the balance of power is tilted strongly towards those who support it.

That was the case for the majority of the post-WW2 order, but is no longer. We're witnessing the birth of a new world order. Likely the new order will have an international law of a sort because it's good for trade, but it won't necessarily be the same as it was.

Underneath it all, only power decides.

Pigo 22 minutes ago | parent

Are they using interesting technology to do it or something? I can get plenty of this kind of news pretty much everywhere else online.

wnevets 17 minutes ago | parent

Fortunately we're only in week 30 of our 2 week war, should be over any day now.

truetraveller 11 minutes ago | parent

Some poor families of dead fisherman want to have a word with you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_strikes_on_alleg...