384 points DeepLogin 3 hours ago 187 comments
fugalfervor 2 hours ago | parent
Waterluvian 1 hour ago | parent
sandworm101 1 hour ago | parent
Waterluvian 1 hour ago | parent
mitxela 1 hour ago | parent
pjc50 1 hour ago | parent
actionfromafar 1 hour ago | parent
knorker 1 hour ago | parent
And while federal crimes are legal now, couldn't it be against state law too?
lokar 1 hour ago | parent
justin66 1 hour ago | parent
Who do you expect to charge the woman with a crime: the local prosecutors who are basically cop-adjacent, Georgia's attorney general who supports the lawless ICE, or a federal prosecutor working under the Trump administration?
I mean, maybe you'd like to do something about it via a civil lawsuit, at which point you ought to acquaint yourself with something called "qualified immunity."
Living in a police state is fun, right?
braj0 46 minutes ago | parent
vrganj 1 hour ago | parent
Steve16384 1 hour ago | parent
JauntyHatAngle 1 hour ago | parent
So it's not all Trump, but his administration has definitely pushed the lack of accountability to new heights and combining it with the new wave of surveillance tech with limited oversight or legislation it's all just become ingrained with nobody to fight it.
jfengel 1 hour ago | parent
ICE is the President's personal force, screened for their loyalty to him. They have no interest in the law. The rest of the government doesn't like them any better than you do.
lotsofpulp 1 hour ago | parent
braj0 43 minutes ago | parent
The president has always ignored the law.
mitxela 1 hour ago | parent
Brybry 1 hour ago | parent
If I worked at a company and gave my work login credentials to a friend and that friend used it to access my work's network then I'm pretty sure I'd go to jail.
Klathmon 45 minutes ago | parent
And just about everyone in the position to prosecute them actively wants this, so this is just another example of laundering the blame.
mysterydip 2 hours ago | parent
Assuming that’s true, why wouldn’t he have his own flock account to do his searches?
ZiiS 1 hour ago | parent
kotaKat 1 hour ago | parent
Kevin_Flynn 1 hour ago | parent
Last two visits, some guy named "Victor" shadowed me, and made it a point to call me by my first name twice.
I spend as little money at Home Depot as possible now.
The flock system is being abused by every organization across the entire country, because thats where peoples heads are at today.
2 out of 3 adults in the US are not considered "psychologically mature" by psychologists.
Nation of adult children + spying and tracking technology ... of course its being abused. The only question is how much, and Flock isn't going to tell us the truth of it, ever, because they dont track abuse, they track victims.
We are the victims of Flock.
arcza 1 hour ago | parent
kotaKat 1 hour ago | parent
They use the licence plate hotlist internally to track when "organized retail crime(tm)" shows up and get pings when "thieves" come back to the store.
Thus, any Lowes/HD asset protection employee/manager can log into Flock, and see all of the ones "owned" by their corporation (which is nationwide, and installed well beyond the confines of the store property, often covering entire shopping plazas or parks where they're located). They won't be able to see outside of those bounds, but that's still a SUPER powerful tool if you consider ~1700 Lowes and 2000 Home Depots in the US alone.
And of course, combined with "small town" mentality and "backing the blue", of course someone with a modicum of power (the mall cop AP employee) will LARP up and want to whack out with ICE/the local PD and be happy to help them if it means getting a challenge coin!
arcza 51 minutes ago | parent
Kevin_Flynn 1 hour ago | parent
Home Depot and Lowes are the 2 largest US home store ( construction materials, appliances, etc ) retail chains in the US.
They have Flock cameras installed on mobile trailers, parked in their parking lots. The cameras track your vehicle as you are parking, and issue alerts for anyone that has been flagged in the database.
In my case, I have classmates from school, who have friends at the local county EMS operations center, who are using the system to stalk me.
Just 3 days ago, I tried to have a quiet conversation with my girlfriend at a little park, in a small neighborhood. Less than 10 minutes after arriving, a car with 4 or 5 people showed up, positioned themselves within ear shot, and then began making fun of us in order to prevent us from thinking and discussing issues clearly. This event by itself seems innocent and random, except, it happens like clockwork, in multiple locations, and its an established pattern in my life, making it decidedly non-random. The "actors" think of it as street theatre, the police think of it as "policing", and what you get as the target is pure psychological hell.
When a victim begins to try and explain verbally what is happening to them, they relive the trauma of the events that have been "staged" and people assume the victim is mentally unstable. It is the same strategy as kicking a dog in the head repeatedly, until it becomes an agry mad dog, and then putting it down because it was dangerous. Create the problem, then appear to solve it.
What may have started out as a joke now has them guilty of human trafficking, so they have adopted a strategy of "running me out of town" via harrassment.
They know if they emotionally destablise people, they will voluntarily leave or self destruct via drugs, stress, acting out, etc.
This is what "community policing" now means.
There are any number of videos on youtube of people having meltdowns, claiming they are being 'gangstalked', etc. and they seem very disturbed. This is why this works. They disturb you, then dismiss any allegations as you being disturbed.
Watch the movie "Closetland" for how psychological abuse works.
ShadowOfThePit 1 hour ago | parent
And you blame the "adults of America" that supposedly are "psychologically inmature", which to me looks like an absurd and unsubstantiated claim
Kevin_Flynn 1 hour ago | parent
The Flock system has these risks built into it, no matter what its proponents claim. A person with one too many beers in them, in any downtown area, in any city, in any country, could say something to offend the wrong person. A person with access to Flock, who happens to be a police officer, who then stalks them.
Your reality is composed of what you have observed, what you have experienced, and what people tell you is real, and people tell 9 lies a day.
Your reality, some part of it, is not what you think. If you place a person in a reality that you control, and then execute a "rug pull" where you drop the veil and reveal a different reality, it causes stress, and stress kills after enough of it.
It's alright if you can't accept that this is happening to other people, but you are doing so because the idea scares you, and its not happening to you, so you reject it, and that is why it works.
Its the new digital Jim Crowe era, and US history is repleat with stories of people whos rights have been abused by others.
isthatafact 1 hour ago | parent
arcza 56 minutes ago | parent
arcza 1 hour ago | parent
Kevin_Flynn 1 hour ago | parent
My "former classmates" due to some grudge, are using their friends in power, to abuse me. The two classmates spearheading it, know everyone who is anyone in this county, because one was the President of a womens organization, and the other has been a bartender downtown for 20 years.
I'm being harassed by the digital good ole boy network. This behavior isn't new, its just morphed into a sci fi dystopia.
arcza 1 hour ago | parent
mitxela 1 hour ago | parent
rationalist 1 hour ago | parent
That sucks though.
Kevin_Flynn 54 minutes ago | parent
You can tell that something has happened to them, but its ephemeral, because its psychological, and what do all of us do when we don't understand someone ?
We dismiss them. We other them. We isolate them. We walk away.
Not as a group decision, but the outcome of our collective individual decisions.
Abuse someone long enough, psychologically, and if they are not educated and self-aware, their behavior becomes erratic and they lose all social support.
It's not unlike veterans of a war, who understand what each other went through, when the public doesn't.
mrweasel 54 minutes ago | parent
soggybread 1 hour ago | parent
Telemakhos 1 hour ago | parent
arcza 53 minutes ago | parent
mitxela 1 hour ago | parent
paimapi 20 minutes ago | parent
[0] https://roughdraftatlanta.com/2023/06/30/atlanta-police-arre...
[1] https://truthout.org/articles/despite-116000-signatures-atla...
[2] https://insideclimatenews.org/news/08032023/atlanta-cop-city...
We spend most of our money at ACE or just order directly from manufacturers online.
p-e-w 1 hour ago | parent
kennywinker 1 hour ago | parent
p-e-w 1 hour ago | parent
StilesCrisis 1 hour ago | parent
brendoelfrendo 1 hour ago | parent
Doesn't mean I don't think that protest and outrage over surveillance aren't good things, just that these things require constant vigilance or else we're stuck with them. Personally, what I see happening is a further bifurcation of American life, where we see communities opposed to constant surveillance contrasted with those that embrace the panopticon.
StilesCrisis 1 hour ago | parent
Look, I get it, we're clearly in the backsliding zone right now, but midterms are here.
chunky1994 1 hour ago | parent
bell-cot 1 hour ago | parent
Which is not to say that voting can't be extremely effective, if organized at suitable scales over time. Trump wasn't re-elected because all the swing voters who'd replaced him with Biden in '20 were overjoyed with how Joe and his Dem's had handled things.
p-e-w 1 hour ago | parent
bell-cot 1 hour ago | parent
I was pointing out that the former is virtually meaningless, but the latter tends to be decisive.
Yes, mass surveillance is a huge problem. But most of the time, most of the voters do not behave as if they meaningfully care about most of the aspects of mass surveillance. That's pretty much the same rule as for the Pentagon buying $5,000 screwdrivers, and bizarre loopholes appearing in the tax code to benefit a few billionaires who are extremely "generous" to their good friends in Congress. Both R's and D's may loudly denounce those practices - but they know that actually fighting against them, where it counts, will not be good for their political careers.
breezybottom 1 hour ago | parent
Tangurena2 13 minutes ago | parent
giantg2 1 hour ago | parent
Because the data is purchased, most jurisdictions don't require a warrant. The only legal issue I can see currently is that Flock lost revenue from having another subscriber.
gambiting 1 hour ago | parent
unified101 1 hour ago | parent
Sharlin 1 hour ago | parent
—
In any case, these Netflix and LLM subscription comparisons are utterly beside the point, the equation is hilariously different when it’s a surveillance tool used by the state violence monopoly that we’re talking about. The standard should be absurdly higher than "no big deal, everyone shares their Netflix".
unified101 57 minutes ago | parent
geraneum 1 hour ago | parent
I am not a lawyer, just curious.
asimops 1 hour ago | parent
But even if it were legal, this only shows the core problem:
That data should not be available to anyone at all.
anang 1 hour ago | parent
It's easy to argue (as lot of people have in this thread) that there is a huge moral difference between sharing access to a streaming service and sharing access to a mass surveillance tool.
But was any criminal law broken? Is it just a violation of Flock's ToS and the biggest consequence is the police department losing access for violating the contract?
It's an important question, because if there isn't really any legal consequences for any of the parties involved then it's worth understanding that and, hopefully, addressing!
If we interpret OP's question in good faith, I don't think they are implying that it should be legal, just asking if it is.
paimapi 14 minutes ago | parent
The additionally annoying aspect about the question is that this is something privacy advocates have been going on about for years. Ever since I started following the EFF in 2012, they've been warning about the rise in private sector mass surveillance and how it would lead to government CCTV. And now here we are, with Ring doorbells sharing data with LEOs and Flock everywhere.
So to hear 'is this illegal' says to me, at minimum, that a dearth of basic internet sleuthing has been done about this issue and the question was posed out of a complete lack of curiosity and self-driven exploration. Especially now with LLMs, research like this is vanishingly easy to do (as is the adversarial review of it, and the eventual dialectical synthesis). To not do so seems lazy, at best, and that's not addressing how the 'if it's not illegal, it's fine' thought-terminating cliche has been pervasively used to justify detention centers, military black sites, NSA wiretapping, police brutality, etc in a way that seems to universally be a bad faith practice.
anang 3 minutes ago | parent
It doesn’t seem like any criminal charges being brought in this case. So sure, an argument could be made that this violates the 4th amendment, but under the current application of the law this seems legal. Which means all and ICE agent needs to get access to flock data is a friend with access. Surely trying to understand that isn’t lazy or justifying anything?
kylecazar 1 hour ago | parent
Sharlin 1 hour ago | parent
cebert 1 hour ago | parent
invaliduser 1 hour ago | parent
reedf1 1 hour ago | parent
Closi 1 hour ago | parent
mjlee 1 hour ago | parent
arcza 1 hour ago | parent
This is why if you're building a product, please give SSO for free (see sso.tax) - you shift responsibility, requirements and posture to the tenant's IdP.
dannyw 54 minutes ago | parent
It is intentional and deliberate price discrimination to charge enterprises more. One example: why do you think enterprises don't just stack consumer/teams Codex or Claude subs with significant subsidies; given that all enterprise seats are API/PAYG now? SSO/IdP + ability to opt out of training globally
arcza 42 minutes ago | parent
skeeter2020 50 minutes ago | parent
stingraycharles 1 hour ago | parent
bpoyner 1 hour ago | parent
Hikikomori 1 hour ago | parent
quietsegfault 1 hour ago | parent
NikolaNovak 1 hour ago | parent
Simple method is IP whitelisting, easy in some ways painful to keep updated. Vpn is another easy option. But then you can have client side certs, hardware tokens, and endpoint security mechanisms which are probably more robust. Either way, it's not a weird unique thing, it's pretty ubiquitous :)
collabs 1 hour ago | parent
xnyan 1 hour ago | parent
mihaaly 21 minutes ago | parent
mikestew 2 minutes ago | parent
FishAngular12 9 minutes ago | parent
Authenticate with SSO > IDP checks for Device fingerprint > IDP Approves Login if Device is whitelisted
harvey9 1 hour ago | parent
mihaaly 23 minutes ago | parent
djoldman 26 seconds ago | parent
skeeter2020 47 minutes ago | parent
hn_throwaway_99 19 minutes ago | parent
Kevin_Flynn 1 hour ago | parent
[reality] It's just the police, beating us with better batons, same as it ever was.
DebtDeflation 1 hour ago | parent
spacephysics 1 hour ago | parent
I’m quite naive regarding the details of the legal system, wonder why we can’t expedite certain cases when a SCOTUS precedent has been established, or some form of expedited legal notice. We shouldn’t have to wait for a perfect case of a flock violation, then wait for someone to be brave enough to spend the money (or if pro bono just their time/reputation) to file a case and go through the system for the next x years
hn_throwaway_99 9 minutes ago | parent
SCOTUS has held for a long time that people don't have an expectation of privacy when visible in public. Digital recording and powerful search features certainly change the calculus on that, but there is a fundamental difference between a location tracked by a cellphone you purchased and own vs. just driving around where anyone can read your license plate.
mrweasel 1 hour ago | parent
Politicians are completely naive in their understand how people works, if it's abused, the system isn't locked down enough or that one person circumvented the procedure. They completely fail to understand that there exists people to whom you cannot grant access and screening people in advance probably impossible. Some cop checks all the boxes, gets access to databases, then their partner leaves them and they are now no longer safe to grant access.
I don't understand why it's hard to grasp that surveillance tools are dangerous and rather using them to protect others, law enforcement will use these tools to do bad things. It's as if that we assume that cops are better people and follow rules better. Even in countries that actually train their police force this isn't remotely true.
The US might be different, I doubt it, but society is getting increasingly SAFE, there is less and less need for these tools.
OtomotO 1 hour ago | parent
Some are, others aren't. They just accept it willingly.
Just as in the Purge movies politicians are exempt ;-)
sham1 1 hour ago | parent
spacephysics 1 hour ago | parent
Craighead 1 hour ago | parent
spacephysics 55 minutes ago | parent
everdrive 1 hour ago | parent
The idea that a movie could get so many basic things so badly wrong, that it could float a scenario that made zero sense, but still gain such cultural traction was one of the first times I felt old. It's speaking to a youth with crazy and new ideas. They're ready to make their own grand and terrible mistakes, which a future youth will one day hate them for.
neaden 1 hour ago | parent
Defletter 49 minutes ago | parent
neaden 29 minutes ago | parent
iugtmkbdfil834 26 minutes ago | parent
anal_reactor 29 minutes ago | parent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_%27round_the_flag_effect
> normal everyday people wouldn't want to be violent one day year
everdrive 9 minutes ago | parent
Rally round the flag accounts for "violence done by others against us" and not "random violence against ourselves" so I think it's completely meaningless in the case of this conversation.
With regard to human sacrifice, how much violence have you been involved in? Maybe a few fist fights in middle school or high school? Do you know anyone who has committed real violence? I'll bet you don't. It's exceedingly rare these days compared to historical norms. People might disagree on why its become so rare, but the general rarity is a fact. Even for areas with high violent crime, there is usually a small minority of violent re-offenders, rather than a large majority of people committing random violence.
aa-jv 51 minutes ago | parent
We should engineer a society immune to that.
Not Starship Troopers, though.
GolfPopper 20 minutes ago | parent
aa-jv 15 minutes ago | parent
IslandRebel 1 hour ago | parent
They understand exactly how people work. You are naive for thinking that they aren't aware of this. Their entire job is essentially a popularity contest in which they promise you things, that they almost never deliver on.
mrweasel 1 hour ago | parent
Honestly I think the majority aren't smart enough to do the cost benefit analysis of these system, so they just ignore the warning.
lukan 1 hour ago | parent
anal_reactor 27 minutes ago | parent
You'd be shocked how many people cannot process basic hypotheticals. I've been in countless dialogues like this one:
- How would you feel now if you had not eaten breakfast?
- But I did eat breakfast.
codeproject 33 minutes ago | parent
IslandRebel 8 minutes ago | parent
These people have us arguing about nonsense while they line their pockets.
SkyPuncher 1 hour ago | parent
It’s such a shame that media (social and traditional) really plays up loss aversion. My local news is basically fear mongering. My local social media page is filled with people who have nothing better to do with their time than complain about all of the negative stuff happening in this town. They take every isolated incident and project it as some major pattern. It’s really sad.
Forgeties79 39 minutes ago | parent
They aren’t doing hard hitting journalism exposing negligence, they are making people terrified of planes. They’re stressing people out about something that is not reasonably within their control AND it’s not a real risk for us all. The numbers don’t support scaring people over this.
mrweasel 32 minutes ago | parent
mhb 56 minutes ago | parent
BLKNSLVR 45 minutes ago | parent
This is a great point, and one that really isn't played up because it doesn't fit the whole profit-from-attention narrative that literally every media surface seems to be following.
It almost seems as if law enforcement 'need' these additional tools to keep them busy; find new, more trivial crime that's been hiding behind no one reporting it or being hurt by it.
Maybe if law enforcement resources could be applied to more corporate crime, that'd keep em busy till the cows come home.
jareklupinski 37 minutes ago | parent
what happens when society solves its issues and theres no need to 'keep them busy' :(
tantalor 17 minutes ago | parent
_heimdall 12 minutes ago | parent
People will always have conflicts from time to time, the only question is whether we let them deal with it themselves or have an authority with a uniform and a badge who is supposed to be trustworthy enough to handle it.
nekusar 11 minutes ago | parent
Most of those 'crimes' shouldnt be. And thats what parts of the jury nullification movements are all about; judging the law BEFORE judging the person.
Also the more data captured about every human, the more criminality can be found, especially in things that shouldnt have ever been criminal. And having higher "bust" numbers and proof of evil criminality element (regular humans doing normal things that are criminalized by the elite) then allows them to write bigger checks for more pervasive surveillance.
Its the classic long tail, and exponential cost increases for of a logarithmic decay of detection.
Our society could restart with a good review of all laws. And those laws with nobody else harmed should be scrapped.
micromacrofoot 28 minutes ago | parent
mrweasel 20 minutes ago | parent
If they wanted to do something to increase feeling of safety, and justice, they'd crack down on bike theft.
universa1 18 minutes ago | parent
ToucanLoucan 22 minutes ago | parent
The cops are not now nor have they ever been an institution to protect the people, they are there to protect the Peace. What's the Peace? Largely seems to be whatever makes the rich people happy.
daveidol 12 minutes ago | parent
Now, I agree that the police are not your friends, and they are incentivized to find crimes when there may not really be any at times, but I disagree with the notion that they are simply the lapdogs of the wealthy. In fact, it seems like in a lot of places in California it's the law-abiding, wealthier citizens that are hassled most by the police for minor infractions, because they know they can actually extract revenue from them.
Kevin_Flynn 7 minutes ago | parent
The police protect "property owners" and "property rights."
And this is why the homeless remain homeless.
No matter where they stand, its someone elses property, and they have little to no rights.
You can't feed yourself if you are forced to keep walking.
amelius 41 minutes ago | parent
shevy-java 37 minutes ago | parent
If a definite majority wants to do so, the system will change. Until then the oligarchs will keep playing one side againts the other, as can currently be seen with Trump amplifying the hate in the population, in order for his cronies to steal more money, start more wars and so forth. He will lose the upcoming elections but he will continue to worship theft and destruction.
RajT88 40 minutes ago | parent
conartist6 32 minutes ago | parent
Cpoll 28 minutes ago | parent
micromacrofoot 27 minutes ago | parent
RajT88 23 minutes ago | parent
wolframhempel 38 minutes ago | parent
- German address registers with religious affiliation were a good idea until the Nazis came to power.
- Pegasus spyware was developed and sold to governments to fight terrorism and serious crime — until it was used to spy on journalists, human rights activists and political opponents, including in authoritarian states.
- Rwandan identity cards listed ethnicity for administrative purposes — until militias used them to identify and execute Tutsis at roadblocks during the 1994 genocide.
Bottom line: Even if you trust the current administration (do you?), are you sure you want 5o give that power to all future ones?
iugtmkbdfil834 35 minutes ago | parent
Oh man, I have to assume you live in a nice little enclave and are reading old statistical reports. I have the misfortune of sometimes having to travel into the city. I can assure you, it is not getting safer. In fact, just last week I saw first sign of Chicago turning into Philly.
ChaseMeAway 26 minutes ago | parent
This chart is up to 2024. If you look up 2025 and 2026 data for the US you will see that it has continued to decline YoY.
Judging by your comment I assume that you have personally witnessed some criminality recently and are drawing conclusions about the entire US, if so I’m sorry you had to endure that, but that doesn’t mean that your conclusions apply to the general trend in the US as the GP was referring to.
motbus3 19 minutes ago | parent
Maybe just a coincidence. I'm sure it is just a coincidence. For real
iugtmkbdfil834 13 minutes ago | parent
But I have no need to convince anyone. It is just weird to me that I need to explain the obvious.
dingaling911 31 minutes ago | parent
The real revelation comes when you realize this is not true.
motbus3 23 minutes ago | parent
InsidiousWombat 19 minutes ago | parent
That's being charitable. Complicit is far more likely, any system like that plays to benefit of the ruling party as you can use it to suppress the people that would vote you out.
_heimdall 14 minutes ago | parent
Crime rates could be going up, that still wouldn't justify broad, warrantless spying on the public. We have rights and they aren't conditional on crime rates.
close04 1 hour ago | parent
Lots of explanations provided for wanting to go easy on her. Is the same logic applied for the many victims of a police department? If it's preferential treatment then maybe Interim Maj. Max Nowinsky should also be kicked to the curb.
> Tyler Harpe, a federal ICE agent
Federal ICE agent Tyler Harpe, may you enjoy your new found fame.
Razengan 1 hour ago | parent
whh 1 hour ago | parent
nekusar 1 hour ago | parent
I'm not completely opposed to 'camera, cell, solar, battery on a pole'. Its pretty low tech honestly... But there absolutely be a minimum standard of search warrant approval in front of a judge before using it. AND it should be a criminal offense to use it without a search warrant.
However there's this whole problem of "illegal for government to do it but whitewashing through for profit company to do illegal thing".
psychoslave 1 hour ago | parent
This is not a contingent issue, it’s a fundamental integrated flaw of any system that put general totalitarian spy as an aimed outcome. Whatever the way it’s green-washed over safety tradeoffs won’t change this obvious fact.
schnitzelstoat 1 hour ago | parent
If the authorities want people to accept systems like Flock etc. then they need to severely punish abuse like this.
cucumber3732842 58 minutes ago | parent
If you wave a magic wand and fix the abuse you will not fix the very nature and purpose of these systems. 1984 would not magically become acceptable if cops couldn't stalk their girlfriend or creds could not be shared among agencies off the books.
A large enough to be a problem subset of the people decrying abuse fancy themselves an armchair central planner (the more self aware ones fancy themselves armchair despots). In the back of their mind they're thinking "if only we got rid of the abuse then the public would buy into this Orwellian system then I could get the government enforce my pet policies with an iron fist and get minimal pushback". Beware of these people. They are the true evil. They all seek to take a bite out of your day to day freedom and it doesn't take all that many of them getting their way before there is nothing left. The politicians feeling emboldened to sign contracts with Flock or any other surveillance vendor only feel emboldened to do so due to the existence and frequency of these people.
Abuse or not these systems are rotten and incompatible on a fundamental level with a free society.
Tangurena2 1 minute ago | parent
I'm reminded of a "hah hah, only serious" joke/slang popularized by EverQuest players: Broken as intended.
https://wiki.c2.com/?HaHaOnlySerious
> if cops couldn't stalk their girlfriend
This used to be called "running a date" by law enforcement when checking up on some pretty face. That abuse is part of what led to the Driver's Privacy Protection Act. When I worked for my state's motor vehicle agency, there were training videos about what was and wasn't allowed. It won't happen under this administration, but ALPR systems should be legislated as covered by DPPA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver%27s_Privacy_Protection_...
lenerdenator 49 minutes ago | parent
steveBK123 45 minutes ago | parent
This would at least reduce some of the avenues for abuse.
armcat 43 minutes ago | parent
shevy-java 39 minutes ago | parent
This is literally a repeat, with modification, of Europe in the 1930s. It is not 1:1 comparable, also in part because the US justice system, even if undermined by orange scumbag loyalists, works to some extent still. I am not saying all of it works, but on youtube you can often listen to discussions by several judges discussing issues at hand. I forgot which one it was, but it was linked in "Audit the Audit", and the judges there asked very good, and very objective questions. In the end they denied a cop immunity by default, based on very logical arguments they made. I was quite surprised when I listened to that. It also means that the Trump oligarch team is not able to kill all of the US justice system, even though they placed their agents into it already.
fuomag9 36 minutes ago | parent
motbus3 25 minutes ago | parent
testhest 9 minutes ago | parent