259 points firefax 2 hours ago 258 comments
stratocumulus0 1 hour ago | parent
yreg 1 hour ago | parent
koziserek 1 hour ago | parent
yewenjie 1 hour ago | parent
bo0tzz 1 hour ago | parent
ctolsen 1 hour ago | parent
input_sh 1 hour ago | parent
codethief 1 hour ago | parent
Weird, if the original messages have been published, why do both OP and the EuroNews article linked by the GP say that "Hackers have published 281 GB of AfD emails as AI summaries" and "A website published what it said were summaries of some of the emails but not the original messages"?
camillomiller 1 hour ago | parent
nylonstrung 1 hour ago | parent
scrollaway 1 hour ago | parent
crimsoneer 1 hour ago | parent
lifestyleguru 1 hour ago | parent
sidcool 28 minutes ago | parent
nylonstrung 1 hour ago | parent
throwa356262 1 hour ago | parent
They hate Jews
They really hate muslims
INTPenis 1 hour ago | parent
It's hilarious watching old European neonazis allying themselves with Israel today.
The confusion is palpable.
throw310822 1 hour ago | parent
"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine."
The leader of that party was Menachem Begin, later prime minister of Israel and founder of Likud, Netanyahu's party.
throwa356262 1 hour ago | parent
If there were 0 muslims in Germany today, their politics would be 100% about Jews controlling the world and all that stuff.
claykkari 1 minute ago | parent
maratc 1 hour ago | parent
This however speaks nothing of anti-Zionism.
throw310822 1 hour ago | parent
Frankly, I think their supposed "antisemitism" is a joke compared to their anti-Arab and anti-muslim attitude. Those are their real enemies now.
Tostino 1 hour ago | parent
endangeredhuman 1 hour ago | parent
dudefeliciano 1 hour ago | parent
leothetechguy 1 hour ago | parent
alkonaut 1 hour ago | parent
A vast archive of hacked emails from the AfD was published online on Monday: 281 GB containing 421,179 internal party emails. And, for anyone who might have grown confused about claims of antisemitism while it was plastered over the German news media in the weeks following the Berlin election: here you can see what it really looks like.
In email after email, party supporters use racist slurs and share antisemitic theories of Jewish world domination; there are jokes about turning refugees into handbags and boots, discussions of whether refugees should be shot at the border, a Christmas card sent with a swastika and “Heil Hitler”, and an email thread signed off with “Heil und Sieg”.
The entire archive is available online – though it may be a criminal offence in Germany to torrent the material or distribute it online. Yet the journalists who’ve been able to examine parts of the hack consider it authentic. The methodology behind the leak is also quite interesting: the vast archive has not been published directly on the site. Instead, it is available via a series of AI summaries, which have been filtered according to severity (CRITICAL, HIGH, MEDIUM, LOW) and type, with categories including “racism_xenophobia”, “corruption_money”, “leadership_feud”, “conspiracy”, “violence_threats” and “antisemitism_extremism”.
The party itself has confirmed the hack to Bild: “In September 2026, a hacker attack targeted one of our party’s hosting service providers, during which portions of a few email accounts – most of which had not been used for years – were apparently illicitly copied.”
Many of the summaries are the party’s own internal disciplinary proceedings, with emails sent to party boards to decide whether to open expulsion proceedings against members. Here, what is shocking (though perhaps not surprising) is the depth and breadth of racist feeling from party members: slurs, fantasies of violence, and antisemitic statements appear commonplace. One email from 2016 appears to show Weidel forwarding a member’s antisemitic material to the federal board as the party weighed his expulsion, while including a warning to her colleagues that the Verfassungsschutz – Germany’s domestic intelligence service – might be reading.
There are some cases which do not appear to have drawn the ire of the party, including one Bavarian official urging party leaders to chant “Merkel croak” every day, or another thread in which staff at the party’s federal office apparently discuss luring a photographer to a party event and removing him by force.
The anonymous hackers claimed their motive behind the leak was to show the “degeneracy and hypocrisy” of the AfD. Among the countless acts of hate speech, there are also allegations of embezzlement and financial misconduct, according to DDoSecrets, a transparency collective which republished the archive: the site’s software flagged 34 documents for misuse of funds, 23 for off-the-books payments, 14 for undisclosed donations and seven for embezzlement.
The AfD party is currently polling at 29% nationally – even while they fight a designation by the Verfassungsschutz as a “confirmed right-wing extremist” party in court. That designation has already been made by state intelligence offices for some state branches, such as Sachsen-Anhalt — though it did not seem to hurt their electoral success. The party achieved 43.8% of the vote there in September.
dudefeliciano 1 hour ago | parent
> The AfD party is currently polling at 29% nationally – even while they fight a designation by the Verfassungsschutz as a “confirmed right-wing extremist” party in court.
The system is working
myaccountonhn 1 hour ago | parent
xvfLJfx9 1 hour ago | parent
joebe89 1 hour ago | parent
microtonal 43 minutes ago | parent
I guess the upside is that in countries with a multi-party system (happens more frequently without first-past-the-post), they virtually always have to form a coalition, which typically ends up in infighting within a party or between parties. E.g. in The Netherlands you typically need four parties nowadays to form a coalition.
myaccountonhn 51 minutes ago | parent
ZeroGravitas 8 minutes ago | parent
I leave it to the reader to decide if I'm talking about now or the 1930s.
SigmundurM 1 hour ago | parent
AltruisticGapHN 1 hour ago | parent
Those tricks don't work anymore.
dudefeliciano 1 hour ago | parent
Yes this "so-called far right" is totally sane and normal.
AlecSchueler 1 hour ago | parent
Obviously all very moderate and centrist behaviour.
AltruisticGapHN 1 hour ago | parent
This idea that somehow it just starts with small things, and then before you know it, the Third Reich is back. Come on. It's 2026.
Today simply waving the flag of your own nation is almost a crime in some countries. We've completely lost it.
AlecSchueler 1 hour ago | parent
People have a very reasonable worry that voting for people who talk about executing refugees (note the term "refugee" and not "economic migrant") might actually enact the policies they speak of.
Any association with the Third Reich reasonably comes from their use of Nazi symbolism and use of Nazi slogans.
ivell 56 minutes ago | parent
Give angry people an outgroup to vent their anger and hate, one can become the ruler of the nation. US did not get a great economy by incarcerating or throwing those few thousand immigrants out. Its economy is currently getting messed up by stupid policies. But people need an outgroup to hate and it is enough for the right wings to get to power.
> This idea that somehow it just starts with small things, and then before you know it, the Third Reich is back. Come on. It's 2026.
And in 2026 we see the state of US going exactly in that direction. Humans are pretty predictable and something similar to Third Reich will happen before you know it. "This time will be different" is hope. Not a given.
Ralfp 54 minutes ago | parent
keiferski 1 hour ago | parent
But I think this kind of moral approach is precisely why right wing parties have been winning globally, in the US and elsewhere. For many voters, the overwhelmingly important thing is individual economic security and personal/familial safety. Full stop.
And so if you force them to choose between a morally off putting party that at least claims to care about their problems, and one that is ostensibly morally less bankrupt, but hand waves away those problems – they’re going to hold their nose and vote for the former. Shame and outrage doesn’t work in a society that is uncertain and scared about its future.
It seems like a handful of candidates are beginning to understand this, in the US at least, but for some reason this level of realpolitik is just beyond many center and center-left parties.
password54321 1 hour ago | parent
consp 57 minutes ago | parent
fabian2k 1 hour ago | parent
This argument has been repeated for decades, but I just don't see it.
cmoski 1 hour ago | parent
password54321 1 hour ago | parent
Correct, everyone is paying more except the top 1% under Trump.
u8080 43 minutes ago | parent
akoboldfrying 45 minutes ago | parent
It explicitly cares about people who identify as traditional Germans, who in their own eyes are "the normal people".
On the economic side, Gemini tells me that they favour deregulation, smaller government, and reducing bureaucracy for small and medium-sized enterprises (Mittelstand). They also want to increase family support payments to incentivise having children. These are all economic policies that make sense to conservative-minded "normal people".
hhjinks 7 minutes ago | parent
throwa356262 1 hour ago | parent
keiferski 1 hour ago | parent
Harris lost to Trump in 2024 for what I see as exactly the same reasons.
password54321 1 hour ago | parent
keiferski 1 hour ago | parent
That doesn’t imply that the candidate must have morally dubious character, just that morally dubious characters are taking advantage of it.
piva00 1 hour ago | parent
"Careless People" talks about it and how it was the inception of Meta's powerplay into politics by becoming indispensable for politicians to use their platforms to reach voters. The only thing they cared about is engagement and avoiding regulations, both are easily achievable if polarisation becomes the norm, the obliteration of proper political discourse into the form it exists now is a consequence of that.
I don't believe those far-right parties would have this much support if public discourse wasn't mostly focused on online platforms like Instagram, TikTok, Twitter/X, etc., they wouldn't have the reach nor the tools for creating information bubbles as existing right now. Those platforms allow for the formation of entire separate realities that are self-reinforcing.
keiferski 1 hour ago | parent
microtonal 52 minutes ago | parent
Sadly, some of the parties that are involved (tech bros, Russia, etc.) are not going to do any good when it comes to these issues. They'll only make the housing issues worse (by accumulating even more wealth and invading your country, respectively). But blaming everything on immigrants and elites has always worked extremely well, in-group vs. out-group is something that our brain needed for survival in the past, so it is very easy to trigger.
The saddest part is that those that push the anti-elite narrative (Trump, Musk, etc.) are often the elites themselves.
piva00 6 minutes ago | parent
Hence why I started with "fanning the flames". It means the issues are there, they need to be worked on but with social media we are stuck, solving complex issues require compromises, long-term thinking and planning, nothing that is enabled by social media's knee-jerk reactions, ephemeral messaging, etc.
account42 5 minutes ago | parent
markus_zhang 1 hour ago | parent
Voultapher 39 minutes ago | parent
markus_zhang 15 minutes ago | parent
Frieren 1 hour ago | parent
and then proceeds with extreme opinions on that parties.
Far-right parties have increased their presence thanks to inequality created by conservative parties and well funded campaigns by billionaries.
Let's not pretend that this is the will of the people when so much money is put into moving the blame of the current state of the economy from billionaires and monopolies towards working class people of foreign origin. (Like if it was working class people the ones hoarding money and power)
gaiagraphia 52 minutes ago | parent
A lot of 'extreme views' being bandied around are not really any different to what was spoken about in the 90s, tbh. Even Tony Blair was making comments on topics like immigration which would make today's audience blush.
We've had decades of centrist governments all throughout Europe. Do they not shoulder any blame for the rise of the far-right? Or is it only the "billionaires" who have agency?
psd1 10 minutes ago | parent
I agree somewhat. However, the fault of mainstream politics is one of failure. The fault of extraterritorial actors is one of action.
I think that mainstream governments in the rounds haven't done enough for hoi polloi in the past few decades, but also that perceptions of what they could have fine may often be unrealistic. There are many prophets - some shallow thinkers might say "just read [ Das Kapital | Friedman ] and do that", but i don't agree that ideology delivers the benefits it promises.
It was a tall order to expect the past few decades of governing parties to satisfy the people enough that they don't turn to AfD shit.
Mainstream politicians' capital comes from votes, an expensive and limited resource. Extraterritorial actors do not have this constraint.
Where i end up is: yes, we should blame tired neoliberal parties for failing the people and driving then to charlatans. But that blame should be tempered by an understanding that government is a game that never leaves everybody satisfied. But extraterritorial actors? They are somewhere between philosophically vacant and hostile, and they are fucking with us just because they can. The blame is categorically greater.
atemerev 1 hour ago | parent
Apparently, everyone forgot already.
keiferski 1 hour ago | parent
zimpenfish 1 hour ago | parent
No, right wing parties have been winning globally because they are vastly more resourced both financially and media-space-ly than the opposition. If you can constantly flood the zone with bullshit, it becomes impossible for the opposition to correct the disinformation before the next flood arrives.
darkwi11ow 42 minutes ago | parent
Gibbon1 35 minutes ago | parent
mazurnification 30 minutes ago | parent
Fast one - the one that used journalism (so called 4th branch of government) that enjoyed public trust and more or less was factual which in turn kept public opinion more or less in one shared and factual reality. This in turn put pressure on actual government in between elections.
And there is second one - slower - public could change government in elections based on the lived experience of last N years.
The monopolies broke 1st loop completely. And the 2nd was hindered. Now ppl cannot choose directionally in slow loop (elections) what is good for their self interest bcs they do not have factual picture of reality. So they can choose based on vibes which in turn is as good as "random move away form current status quo".
IMHO still way better then autocracy.
Case in point - ppl voted for Trump among other things bcs of gasoline prices. How it turned out...
And why right wing - bcs said monopolies put thumb on the scale - as their are capital after all. And they do have more self awareness what is best for their interest. If democracy survives next will move will be ditching current right wing for whatever else and then even monopolies thumb on scale probably will not help current regimes.
hypfer 1 hour ago | parent
They're right-wing extremists. We know that for a fact and have known that without commiting cybercrimes. So what is there to learn?
Maybe embezzlement or similar, but.
We have to keep in mind that they have in fact become the victim of a crime, which they (best case) will spin to their advantage.
Worst case they will use it as a justification to commit such and other crimes themselves.
vrganj 1 hour ago | parent
hypfer 1 hour ago | parent
If you look at the numbers of votes they're getting, you see a group of people that is so large, it will be self-sustaining, instead of fizzling out. Or so is my prediction.
Idk. I just don't see this ending up in the way we want things to end up. It's not going to affect me personally all that much, because I can be "passing" so to speak, but that's not exactly what one should strive for tbh. Keeping your head down and not caring as long as you're fine, I mean.
vrganj 1 hour ago | parent
And I agree, now that we've waited so long (gee, I wonder if the far-right Verfassungsschutz leader had anything to do with that?), banning them will be ugly and lead to civil unrest. I think realistically, we will need some major state repression of these Neonazis and good luck with that given the political leanings of police.
But I don't think there's a way around that at this point, we still have to try.
"Wehret den Anfängen" and "Never Again" and all that.
hypfer 1 hour ago | parent
"You gotta do something" is correct, but not every something is suited.
But I think at this point we're entering the circular stage, so. Idk. I don't want to live in this world we see developing, but what I want seems to be not all that relevant to said world.
travoc 29 minutes ago | parent
niemandhier 1 hour ago | parent
neuroticnews25 1 hour ago | parent
hypfer 1 hour ago | parent
Just claim that the anonymous entity wasn't anonymous. Claim it was your enemy. "Look, the Antifa hacked us. We need to ban them just like the US did"
Or blow it up bigger. "Look, the system itself is corrupt and 'the left/the altparteien/whoever' stopped using democratic measures to compete against us. That is because they cannot win on their own merit. Meaning that the system and its safeguards are meaningless."
Something like that. Given more time, one could flesh out this back-of-the-napkin thing into a likely working strategy.
___
Fascism fundamentally isn't data-driven but narrative-driven. So data alone is not going to work against it (though it is a valuable pillar).
leothetechguy 1 hour ago | parent
alejoar 1 hour ago | parent
_ink_ 1 hour ago | parent
Frieren 1 hour ago | parent
Never let your far-right parties grow. It should be banned, it should have been banned years ago.
By the way, defund billionaires. The Epstein class is behind the funding of these extremist dangerous parties.
microtonal 1 hour ago | parent
heckelson 1 hour ago | parent
233mhz 17 minutes ago | parent
Ygg2 1 hour ago | parent
dzhiurgis 35 minutes ago | parent
Andrew_nenakhov 1 hour ago | parent
dana-s 1 hour ago | parent
ImHereToVote 52 minutes ago | parent
travoc 30 minutes ago | parent
dranudin 1 hour ago | parent
microtonal 1 hour ago | parent
junon 1 hour ago | parent
AfD leaders want to bring back the German nationalism of the 30s/40s, fullstop.
Can we please stop pretending this isn't the case? It's so tiring.
iqihs 1 hour ago | parent
pillefitz 1 hour ago | parent
junon 59 minutes ago | parent
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/feb/23/afd-na...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/sep/11/afd-mps-scruti...
https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=https://www.thetime...
And about a million others if you search them up. They are the neo-Nazi party. The leaked emails this article is about speak volumes.
cwillu 54 minutes ago | parent
polyamid23 1 hour ago | parent
exceptione 1 hour ago | parent
> The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance. This paradox was articulated by philosopher Karl Popper in The Open Society and Its Enemies (1945),[1] where he argued that a truly tolerant society must retain the right to deny tolerance to those who promote intolerance. Popper posited that if intolerant ideologies are allowed unchecked expression, they could exploit open society values to erode or destroy tolerance itself through authoritarian or oppressive practices.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerancenkrisc 52 minutes ago | parent
Hypothetically, should a party running on a platform of ending democracy be allowed to participate in democracy? Should they be allowed to end it for all future and current citizens?
noworriesnate 22 minutes ago | parent
233mhz 8 minutes ago | parent
https://www.verfassungsschutz.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilung...
There are several ex high ranking afd official who left the party because of nepotism, internal authoritarianism, etc.
https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersachsen/afd-niedersachs...
https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/inside-afd-...
ChrisRR 43 minutes ago | parent
microtonal 1 hour ago | parent
throwaway2037 55 minutes ago | parent
Two important facts:
> Under Article 21, Paragraph 2 of Germany’s Basic Law (Constitution), a party can only be banned if it actively seeks to undermine or abolish the free democratic basic order or threaten the existence of the Federal Republic of Germany.
> Proving the Whole Party is Extremist: Courts require proof that the entire party—not just individual members or radical factions—is systematically anti-constitutional.
Also, it incredibly rare to ban political parties in Germany. > In the history of the Federal Republic of Germany, the Federal Constitutional Court has banned only two political parties:
> Socialist Reich Party (SRP) (Sozialistische Reichspartei): A neo-Nazi and far-right party considered a successor to the Nazi Party, banned in 1952.
> Communist Party of Germany (KPD) (Kommunistische Partei Deutschlands): A Stalinist party, banned in 1956.
Whenever I see Alice Weidel, I see a wolf in sheep's clothing. It is pretty genius that AfD selected her as head of the party. She provides a thin veneer of suitability over a horrible underbelly.ChrisRR 45 minutes ago | parent
kleiba2 1 hour ago | parent
consp 1 hour ago | parent
nlitened 37 minutes ago | parent
Tostino 13 minutes ago | parent
Tik, right?
ethbr1 1 minute ago | parent
"I wanted to be the destroyer of Marxism."
- Hitler's closing argument while on trial in 1924 for the Beer Hall Putsch https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2524-the-hitler-beer-hall-p...
plastic-enjoyer 1 hour ago | parent
Why not?
m4xp 46 minutes ago | parent
tgv 22 minutes ago | parent
Damn right it isn't, because for most of them it is against their own interests. They vote out of emotion.
233mhz 20 minutes ago | parent
fabian2k 1 hour ago | parent
Popularity isn't a limit here, at least not in this direction. If the party were irrelevant, it would prevent the ban since the party would not be able to achieve those anti-constitutional goals anyway.
m4xp 49 minutes ago | parent
fabian2k 43 minutes ago | parent
ludicrousdispla 40 minutes ago | parent
mr_mitm 37 minutes ago | parent
Debatable. One of the core ideas of democracy is to protect minorities. Democracy has been built around the concept that a majority cannot restrict basic rights of minorities. Arguably no one should be allowed to create a system which allows the violation of basic human rights of minorities.
RobotToaster 17 minutes ago | parent
The idea that democracy is synonymous with the current neoliberal order is nonsense.
account42 43 minutes ago | parent
tcfhgj 35 minutes ago | parent
The other option has been tried 100 years ago and didn't go so well.
> If you want people to vote for other parties then those parties should chagne to serve the people again instead of trying to make the people serve them.
This doesn't work when the party doesn't serve the people in the first place.
It doesnt even help most of their voters.
pferdone 31 minutes ago | parent
233mhz 23 minutes ago | parent
tremon 22 minutes ago | parent
satnhak 41 minutes ago | parent
fabian2k 39 minutes ago | parent
mr_mitm 36 minutes ago | parent
However, it is in our democratic right to fight parties that are anti constitutional. It's in the constitution.
adwn 32 minutes ago | parent
Edit: There is a loophole, though. Article 146 allows the German people to replace the constitution in its entirety.
whilenot-dev 6 minutes ago | parent
It's actually quite the opposite, they are running on things like a direct democracy[0], with phrases such as "Wir sind überzeugte Demokraten"[1] (eng: We are confident democrats). And they do that for good reason, as running a party that openly wants to abandon the democratic process would be against the constitution.
[0]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_f%C3%BCr_Deutschla...
[1]: https://www.afd.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Programm_AfD_D...
travoc 32 minutes ago | parent
You declared it, so it must be true.
ChrisRR 53 minutes ago | parent
okr 39 minutes ago | parent
And that AfD is against the best interest of the people, i guess, you can not be serious. It is a populist party that picks up all the things that people are not happy about and are popular, but ignored. It is actually in the very interest of the people who vote for them. But of course scary for the people, who get voted out. Majority wins.
jansan 27 minutes ago | parent
The laws don't work like that, otherwise we arguably would not have any parties left.
ChrisRR 23 minutes ago | parent
sourcecodeplz 36 minutes ago | parent
he posted & advertised heavily nationalistic videos on tiktok and gained huge following.
court said the election had been affected by irregularities, alleged foreign interference, and problems with campaign financing and online campaigning.
RobotToaster 29 minutes ago | parent
Ygg2 1 hour ago | parent
EU and Germany's woes won't go away with banning a party. You can't have a single currency without a joint fiscal policy (aka federal state).
fabian2k 53 minutes ago | parent
account42 19 minutes ago | parent
GJim 41 minutes ago | parent
Oh dear.
Whatever happend to Voltares "I disprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it"?
EDIT: The irony of this post being downvoted in an attempt to hide it, rather than discuss an opinion you disagree with!
EDIT2: Please understand I have no love for AfD, rather a love of open politics (let everybody hear how crazy they are!).
Micanthus 35 minutes ago | parent
And regardless, banning a political party (the process for which is set in Germany's constitution) is not the same as banning its former members from speaking.
easyThrowaway 32 minutes ago | parent
Zealotux 32 minutes ago | parent
Anything but address the actual issues that helped catapult them to the top.
informancer 20 minutes ago | parent
Even if the quote was correct, it is about free speech. Being elected and holding political office is beyond that.
tgv 17 minutes ago | parent
O tempora, o mores. Back in Voltaire's (sic) days, this would have been an issue between debating gentlemen, not one of massive spreading of hate. It's the fault of media and internet, I know, but that's not so easy to stop.
RobotToaster 35 minutes ago | parent
sidcool 29 minutes ago | parent
whilenot-dev 18 minutes ago | parent
8-prime 16 minutes ago | parent
Epa095 15 minutes ago | parent
driuha 11 minutes ago | parent
grandchild 1 hour ago | parent
There are ongoing efforts to ban the party (through constitutional instruments created specifically after 1945 to prevent a second NSDAP or other similar anti-constitutional extremists) and there is an argument to be made that this is strategical assistance for evidence-gathering.
There has been another effort [0] collecting _public_ statements that can be used in a potential future Constitutional Court case. Depending on your stance this leak complements the ban effort or undermines its legitimacy. Note, Germany has no fruit-of-the-poison-tree evidence provisions!
rickdeckard 25 minutes ago | parent
If it progresses like it ALWAYS does (EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.), the center-right party copies the far-right messages in hopes of gaining the votes of the far-right voters, then enters a coalition with them as the "voice of reason to reign them in", to ultimately just achieve normalization of those narratives, a hollowed-out democracy, destroyed political discourse and an empowered far-right party.
But one can hope, that THIS time it will be different...
belorn 1 hour ago | parent
Would it be a good thing or bad thing if this was scaled up so email servers and instance messages services was all public if the message involved a member of a political party, without allowing any back channel or ways to avoid the public record?
khalic 56 minutes ago | parent
aleph_minus_one 27 minutes ago | parent
This would make surveillance laws socially much more acceptable. The politicians will claim:
- "We are surveilled anyway, so we can pass surveillance laws against citizens, too.", or
- "The citizens really ask for surveillance laws against specific groups (in this case: politicians). So, we will, of course, give the citizens what they want and pass surveillance laws against potential terrorists/child abusers/[whatever is currently fashionable]".
If you consider privacy or the right not to be surveilled to be important, this better should hold for the enemy (politicians).
stingraycharles 44 minutes ago | parent
These types of shenanigans were even named after him, “Rutte doctrine”.
gizajob 2 minutes ago | parent
mathgeek 37 minutes ago | parent
toyg 37 minutes ago | parent
The reality is that backchannels have always existed. People used to meet discreetly or through emissaries; or had phone calls from secure lines; etc. There is so much that we will never know, even about times that are well-documented.
To be honest, I am not a big fan of "thoughtcrime" being pursued. Let them be racist if they want to; we should make sure the population is smart enough to reject racism on its own. Maintaining a working democracy requires some violence, sure, but if we over-use it it will stop being a democracy.
atoav 25 minutes ago | parent
Sure, you can make it the law, but technically there are infinite ways to get around it, including ones that are impossible to get rid off, like using the shared folders on systems that are non-publik for safety reasons.
remus 8 minutes ago | parent
vovavili 57 minutes ago | parent
koik 53 minutes ago | parent
There is little competition for taboo topics in politics, so those who lean into them become a kind of a monopoly for these issues. They don't need to play nice to compete, because they are the sole provider.
In Germany, immigration is the most popular issue and also a taboo. AfD has a complete monopoly on it. They get away with the baggage because for a large share of voters, the alternative just does not exist.
geremiiah 30 minutes ago | parent
So they frame the anti-immigrant debate as if they are fighting to kick out the Syrian asylum seeker who hasn't worked a day since he arrived in 2015. But in truth, they are basically saying, "we don't want too many foreigners, especially ones that don't look German". This applies to pretty much all the legal immigrants in Germany.
ReptileMan 46 minutes ago | parent
jmyeet 44 minutes ago | parent
Politics <--------- Left ------ Center ------ Right ---------->
| | Neoliberalism |
Economics | Anti-capitalism | Capitalism |
US | DSA Democrats Republicans |
Germany | SPD CDU/CSU AfD |
UK | Greens Labor Tories Reform |
France | LFI Renaissance RN |
There are some general observations one can make:1. The far-right parties are linked and coordinated and generally funded by very wealthy people;
2. The rise of far right parties is a direct result of declining material conditions;
3. Far right parties get to blame immigration and trans people because, in general, there is no counterbalance to that narrative blaming the actual cause: capitalism and ever-increasing income and wealth inequality;
4. The "moderate" (which really means centrist or center-right parties) will predictably and routinely ally with far-right parties to crush any leftist momentum. As an aside, the term "moderate" is intentionally conflated by pollsters, politicians and the media and really means nothing;
5. The topic of economics is typically avoided in most Western countries because the economics are indefensible. Instead you have manufactured wedge issues to divide people such as immigraiton, gay rights and the existence of a handful of trans people. This suits both major parties in most countries because they're both neoliberal, which is to say that they are uniparty on defending capitalism;
6. People will defend capitalism and attack socialism without knowing what either of those things are. Ask someone what capitalism is and you'll usually get a hand-wavy claim about "free markets" or even just "markets", which isn't true at all. No markets are free and markets exist in every economic system. Some of our earliest writings from 4000+ years ago are about market transactions.
So when you see things like protests in France, the rise of Reform in the UK and the rise of AfD (as well as others such as in Italy) know that it's all related and has the same root cause.
Fascism is capitalism in crisis. We saw how that worked out in the 1930s in the wake of the Great Depression. In the US, FDR was forced to make concessions to the working class to stave off the perceived threat of communism. In Germany we got Hitler. And after WW2, the US went on an imperialism frenzy, imperialism being the highest form of capitalism.
All of this is only going to get worse until we address the core issue, which is capitalism.
voidUpdate 36 minutes ago | parent
Why not publish the actual emails? Why do they need to be summarised, perhaps incorrectly?
atemerev 33 minutes ago | parent
SanjayMehta 28 minutes ago | parent
Propaganda works like this; they know most people won't dig any further than the headline and summaries.
sheikhnbake 27 minutes ago | parent
alphager 11 minutes ago | parent
k1next 35 minutes ago | parent
sidcool 31 minutes ago | parent
eiclu 24 minutes ago | parent
azan_ 22 minutes ago | parent
Ahh, old good mild conservatism.
noworriesnate 6 minutes ago | parent
prolly97 29 minutes ago | parent
Their views, are the views of 1/5 people you'll meet in Germany, on average. If we mirrored this logic, the SPD should be "far-left", Grüne should be "far-left pro" and Links should be "ultra far-left pro max".
This use of language waters out the meaning. Just like calling everyone commies and nazis... also I think it'll have the opposite effect you hope.
emtrixx 22 minutes ago | parent
dereify 20 minutes ago | parent
elil17 17 minutes ago | parent
throwfaraway135 26 minutes ago | parent
the summary is: "AfD member Matthias Funk writes and forwards racist dehumanizing incitement: Neger, Muselmanen, Hinterwäldler, dreckige Monster Merkel, Pest, calls patriots to rise against Verbrecher."
I'm not sure about the actual email, but am certain that there are a lot of "left coded" agents that would find any discussion based on statistically correct data of immigrants "dehumanizing". Also considering the WWE style of modern politics calling one of the leaders of your opposition "dreckige Monster Merkel" is not something strange.
AnimalMuppet 20 minutes ago | parent
throwfaraway135 17 minutes ago | parent
jsiepkes 19 minutes ago | parent
You think the term "muselmanen" could reasonably be used in a civilized "discussion based on statistically correct data of immigrants"? You do know "muselmanen" has a very specific link to WWII concentration camps, right?
throwfaraway135 11 minutes ago | parent
0x_rs 23 minutes ago | parent
The irony. All those parties really have no beliefs or principles, they only desire power and to use it for themselves. One may wonder what got so many people to decide those entities would deserve their vote more than the other establishment.
ffsm8 9 minutes ago | parent
The party isn't. Their program includes increasing social programs like pensions etc. they're even pro immigration for - their program explicitly only alienates asylum seekers and people that aren't contributing to society.
Really, they're just populists, and until the idiotic "Brandmauer" falls they'll keep gaining more proof how they're the only one's on the side of the population.
It's like the people on the establishes parties are seriously braindead to not be able to understand such basic signalling.
So here we are now, creating another stupid controversy that will only ultimately increase their popularity with the next polls, because this whole thing is super easy to finagle into the establishment just spreading FUD and misinformation. Because let's face it, 95% of it is as most of the controversial things are even from the summaries obvious fucking politically incorrect jokes...
So, another day in which the media sabotages themselves, discrediting everyone involved in this affair.
I cannot believe these people publishing this and think "this is going to shut them down". Are they literally sub 80 IQ or something? Aka legally retarded?
niemandhier 5 minutes ago | parent
dasKrokodil 16 minutes ago | parent