274 points bo0tzz 1 hour ago 162 comments

nickorlow 1 hour ago | parent

I guess they ran out of numbers?

RGS1811 1 hour ago | parent

5

pixl97 1 hour ago | parent

https://xkcd.com/221/

lol, I didn't realize the latest comic was also topical.

https://xkcd.com/3314/

caelanrt 57 minutes ago | parent

that's gold jerry

MYEUHD 24 minutes ago | parent

Read the alt text :)

Devasta 57 minutes ago | parent

Sorry, I'm using this one; they'll need to pick another.

shrubble 1 hour ago | parent

How much did they make over the years? Is it true that they issued 60 million SSL certificates (I read this but couldn't verify it)?

Reubachi 1 hour ago | parent

# of issued leaf certs isn't a great indicator of propagation, user-impact, revenue etc.

1. 59 million of those 60 million could be very short validity, duplicate enrollments from same private key/csr, etc. 2. I'm still not certain that that figure isn't including for example private roots/intermediates they've issued from.

That said they're a low volume (in terms of root/int) provider so I don't think the impact of them exiting will be great.

kbaker 58 minutes ago | parent

> There were no end entity certificates issued out of the affected CA’s.

What does this mean from the press release? Were they only issuing other chained intermediates? Or did they never issue any ECC certificates from these at all, and everyone is paying the price?

I wonder if big roots with chained intermediates will now need to have serious pressure on their downstream intermediates to re-prove their need to exist. I know RHEL and Debian's strategy (if not others) was to pull the Comodo AAA Services root as well ...

mschuster91 1 hour ago | parent

Let's be real - there was no way for them to recover their way out of that after this ridiculously bad screw-up.

sspiff 56 minutes ago | parent

Sure there was - rebrand and change names, maybe once or twice until the public loses interest to keep talking about it.

Or silently spin out a subsidiary under a new name who takes over the cert business, and redirect existing customers there for renewals.

lenerdenator 49 minutes ago | parent

Also, deflect blame while attacking those who brought up your mistakes.

Don't these people pay any attention to politics?

Khoth 39 minutes ago | parent

They also have to convince the root programs to let them stay trusted, which can't be done by issuing vague press releases until the news cycle moves on.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2083449#c30 They're being asked some very pointed questions about why they encountered problems with the key generation process at the time but didn't properly investigate.

ErikCorry 5 minutes ago | parent

Yes they didn't close down the business, it was already gone. There's not a business called "selling certs that aren't accepted by any browser or OS". That's not a product.

Absolutely no way any OS or browser manufacturer forgives them and let's their certs validate anything in the future.

rarisma 1 hour ago | parent

sixty million certs but couldn't count past 4.

luispa 1 hour ago | parent

-----BEGIN RSA PRIVATE KEY----- 4 -----END RSA PRIVATE KEY-----

zoobab 58 minutes ago | parent

$ cat /dev/random-in-india

4

sspiff 55 minutes ago | parent

No need to resort to racism. Stupidity is present in all nations.

knottn 49 minutes ago | parent

India is a place not a race though. They have an entire caste system built around that fact.

zoobab 38 minutes ago | parent

You have little and big endians:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endianness

I had a bunch of openwrt routers based on the ADM5120 SoC, some of them were of different endianness, totally wth:

https://linux-mips.org/wiki/Adm5120

triceratops 37 minutes ago | parent

Today "racism" is used as a synonym for "bigotry". Would you agree it was bigotry? Or do you only have a problem with people using words wrong, and not bigotry itself?

alt227 29 minutes ago | parent

Whynot use the correct word for it, which is prejudice? Racism is prejudice against a race. You can be prejudiced to any group of people, doesnt mean that you are biggoted.

triceratops 22 minutes ago | parent

> Whynot use the correct word for it, which is prejudice?

Again you seem more concerned with grammar than, y'know, condemning racism, prejudice, or bigotry. They're all equally bad and closely related concepts. "A rose by another name" and so on.

Also modern usages of "racism" encapsulate all of these meanings. Languages change over time.

> You can be prejudiced to any group of people, doesnt mean that you are biggoted

Yes, that's literally what it means.

sspiff 16 minutes ago | parent

My mistake. English is not my first language. In my native language, the word racism is used for discrimination or prejudice against anything foreign (nation, race, language, ...).

But either way, I find the reduction of the argument to the semantics of the word racism to be deflection. Wouldn't you agree the original comment was made in poor taste? Why did it need to include a reference to Indian and imply that all things Indian made are cheap or low quality?

We applied this kind of mindset to the Japanese in the 60s and 70s, and look where that got us. I witness it happening again in the 00s and 10s applied to Korean electronics (LG and Samsung mostly) while we were content with minor improvements over the status quo and innovating far too slowly.

Yes, this incident has an almost farcical amount of stupid attached to it, but the fact that it happened to an Indian company is in my eyes only coincidental. There are plenty of Silicon Valley startups and tech companies that are equally cavalier about aspects of security and apply the mentality of "we'll fix it in post" to anything but shipping features.

zoobab 12 minutes ago | parent

"There are plenty of Silicon Valley startups and tech companies that are equally cavalier about aspects of security and apply the mentality of "we'll fix it in post" to anything but shipping features."

Most companies handle security very badly.

jen20 35 minutes ago | parent

BEGIN EC PRIVATE KEY, surely?

kccqzy 15 minutes ago | parent

-----BEGIN PRIVATE KEY----- MIG2AgEAMBAGByqGSM49AgEGBSuBBAAiBIGeMIGbAgEBBDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAShZANiAAQTglHNUqyS mMHIqtl3Mh3rl+cJvQtMoKylXcitUdz8nRWJoVl+OlEg4e/WMcY+GDXKyuKYaaYu FjHoooGBq1ZhbcRdkYq8CfOrDmPPeSqk3O1zh743u6VpVJ8cArJw7Wc= -----END PRIVATE KEY-----

The key needs to mention which curve it is using.

nayuki 15 minutes ago | parent

You can't do that because an RSA private key contains two numbers - the modulus and the exponent. Even better, an RSA private key usually has the modulus stored as its two factors rather than their product.

Also note that using small numbers like 65537 for RSA public exponents is common practice.

g_a_a_s 1 hour ago | parent

> However, the level of social media amplification around this incident has brought scrutiny that is out of proportion to SSL/TLS’s place in our business.

What a weak minded statement. Just admit you messed up and call it a day.

ritzaco 1 hour ago | parent

I do agree it is out of proportion, they deserve a lot more amplification

abixb 35 minutes ago | parent

As someone who's well-versed with the "face-saving" aspects of Indian culture, I can state with clarity that the statement they put out is completely in character.

Folks in India — especially the boomer class — are trepidated by how they're perceived over actual substance and quality of their work (exceptions exist, of course).

Edit: Sudhir Kakar's (an Indian psychoanalyst) work on Indian identity (The Inner World, Intimate Relations) helped me decode my own origin culture's internal logic. Highly recommend it for people of South Asian diaspora.

profdevloper 29 minutes ago | parent

Major loss of izzat here

throw0101c 26 minutes ago | parent

TIL:

> Izzat (Bengali: ইজ্জত; Hindi: इज़्ज़त; Urdu: عزت, romanized: 'izzat, lit. 'honour') literally translated: "respect" is a concept of prestige, dignity, and social respect.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izzat

* Similar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)

suitormildest0j 25 minutes ago | parent

This!

Also, this is the response from official Indian Ministry of Electronics & IT:

…” However, some social media accounts are indulging in fear mongering about the impact of this incident.…”

Bruh, you just literally 4 as private key

Lol

Edit: removed a section as rightly pointed out in comment below!

nayuki 20 minutes ago | parent

> Bruh, you just literally went ——— BEGIN PUBLIC KEY ——— 4 ——— END PUBLIC KEY ———

No, their private key is 4. Moreover, you wouldn't see the literal number 4 because the PEM key file would have the cryptographic sections encoded in base64.

suitormildest0j 13 minutes ago | parent

You’re right. I stand corrected! Updated comment.

jcbrand 16 minutes ago | parent

Private key, not public key.

abixb 6 minutes ago | parent

This reaction always gets me:

“One of eMudhra’s certificate authority private keys is the number 4. Not a number that starts with 4, or the number 4 followed by a few hundred random digits, just, 4… Another one is 56, and another is 115. I know, because I recovered all of them from their public certificates on my laptop just now, and it took less than a second,” wrote Helme.

Security researcher Scott Helme was among those who recovered the keys. This is a hall-of-fame level fail.

throwaway2244 25 minutes ago | parent

>> Boomer class

People like you are the ones make the world place to live in

albedoa 14 minutes ago | parent

> the ones make the world place to live in

You joke, but this happened to my cousin.

rideontime 13 minutes ago | parent

What?

pizzafeelsright 10 minutes ago | parent

I am curious, not that I agree it exists or understand the reality of izzat, how does it differ in saving face provided by gentlemen who allow the loser to have a graceful defeat?

In martial arts the winner will often say "I got lucky" or "you almost had me" to allow the loser to save face, at least publicly, when in reality the skill gap is evident.

ignoramous 6 minutes ago | parent

> Folks in India — especially the boomer class — are trepidated by how they're perceived over actual substance and quality of their work

Just the sheer size and diversity of the Indian "boomer class" could put such generalizations in doubt?

> As someone who's well-versed with the "face-saving" aspects of Indian work culture, I can state with clarity

Pause to consider that the world might appear to you as you imagine it to be. That is, it might be holding up a mirror in to your own psyche.

isatty 1 hour ago | parent

The gall to write that after using the integer 4 as a private key.

remus 47 minutes ago | parent

It's not quite as egregious as someone purposely choosing the key. According to the write up on the Mozilla bugtracker there was a bug in the script used for there key generation ceremony which caused the bad certificates to be generated. Obviously completely unacceptable for a CA, but makes more sense than someone plucking 4 out of the air while generating a root cert.

xmcp123 37 minutes ago | parent

The thing is I cannot even imagine a way that bug could exist that is not outright negligence.

A unit test becoming prod data? That’s really all I’ve got and that’s pretty unforgivable.

kijin 33 minutes ago | parent

I've integrated with production APIs that tell the client to encrypt sensitive data using an IV consisting of 16 null bytes.

Some people just follow a spec and don't stop to think what they spec is supposed to accomplish.

__MatrixMan__ 33 minutes ago | parent

It's easier to imagine if it was malicious.

subscribed 33 minutes ago | parent

It was selected with a fair dice, guaranteed to be random! :)

Hamuko 59 minutes ago | parent

There must be an uncountable number (>237) of social media posts about them by now.

PalmPilotProMax 48 minutes ago | parent

More than 4 posts. It's absolutely ghastly.

mring33621 33 minutes ago | parent

I would have never guessed that

3form 54 minutes ago | parent

The key was enough of a statement of TLS's place in their business. No new information here.

prodigycorp 50 minutes ago | parent

A weak minded action doesnt produce a win for all parties involved. In fact I applaud their bravery.

ChrisRR 50 minutes ago | parent

"We've been caught out showing that we didn't know what we were doing. And we think people sharing that is disproportionate"

unsupp0rted 43 minutes ago | parent

Culturally, that reply makes perfect sense.

e.g. Japanese culture in many circumstances requires a company to rush to apologize for the smallest perceived (not even actual) fault

hijuryutis 36 minutes ago | parent

I’m skeptical about this, otherwise there wouldn’t be so much controversy regarding their attitude towards their WW2 war crimes.

ksenzee 31 minutes ago | parent

There is a big difference between a member of a culture apologizing to other members of that culture, and an entire culture apologizing to the world.

shadowgovt 9 minutes ago | parent

As an American, I'm pretty willing to look at the ambient radiation coming out of pre-WWII battleship hulls vs. post-WWII and just say "We're square."

Certainly can't speak for the rest of the world.

numpad0 17 minutes ago | parent

This one is basically Japan being social media IRL since before it. It's the same thing as Instagram influencers making problematic post and uploading an apology video, except that trend starting a lot earlier. Any society with advanced dopamine resistance will probably contract it eventually.

War crimes stuffs is a separate and a bit more nuanced issue. It's also not just the simple matter of admitting or denying it.

kccqzy 24 minutes ago | parent

Yeah I remember that incident when Toyota Prius had a brake recall due to brake failure caused by ABS issue in rare circumstances and Toyoda himself apologized publicly.

joecool1029 17 minutes ago | parent

> e.g. Japanese culture in many circumstances requires a company to rush to apologize for the smallest perceived (not even actual) fault

For a something this big they'd probably have execs making a visit to a certain forest.

johanyc 6 minutes ago | parent

How is Japanese culture relevant when this is Indian company?

genidoi 43 minutes ago | parent

To admit having messed up they would need to include the full private key in the post, which they seem to have decided is still more embarrassing than not including it.

ojagodzinski 43 minutes ago | parent

> Just admit you messed up and call it a day.

learn about Izzat and Jugaad in their "culture". That explains the problem itself, as well as the reaction ;)

Zobat 40 minutes ago | parent

What I hear is that he is saying that the SSL/TLS business is only a small part of their overall business and that they can close that part down as a result of the loss of reputation for that this has rendered.

jesuswasjew 37 minutes ago | parent

izzat loss

frenchtoast8 40 minutes ago | parent

DigiCert threatened legal action against companies that asked them embarrassing questions after they had to revoke certificates due to a bug.[1]

It raises the question why these CAs agree to participate on this forum and then complain about doing so.

1: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1950144

jesuswasjew 33 minutes ago | parent

Things like this is why India and Indians are not respected and will never be because this is hardcoded attitude.

gnfargbl 38 minutes ago | parent

Immediately and totally exiting the domain is about as close to admit you messed up and call it a day as you'll ever get from a modern company.

The statement can use whatever weasel words it likes, but the action pretty clearly says "we aren't mature enough as an organisation to handle this responsibility." Which would be quite the concern for me, if I were a customer for one of eMudhra's other product lines.

jesuswasjew 38 minutes ago | parent

We are high caste.

jason-phillips 36 minutes ago | parent

> admit you messed up

You apparently don't understand Indians.

jfyi 36 minutes ago | parent

While I admit their explanation is questionable, they did admit they messed up.

I see this more as "we didn't know this was so complex and the juice no longer looks worth the squeeze."

qalmakka 34 minutes ago | parent

Jesus H Christ these guys had literally the number 4 as their secret and they call telling them they're incompetent an "out of proportion" reaction?

nujabe 25 minutes ago | parent

Clearly you never had a manager from India, otherwise you’d know this is standard protocol.

falsemyrmidon 10 minutes ago | parent

"We didn't care about that part of our business anyways!" And the outcome clearly shows that.

micromacrofoot 1 hour ago | parent

probably a good career move

TomMasz 1 hour ago | parent

Consider the barn door securely locked. Sorry about the horse.

kijin 27 minutes ago | parent

It's more like they tore down the entire barn.

tetha 1 hour ago | parent

> He added that global SSL/TLS is a small part of eMudhra’s business contributing to about 1% of the global revenue

Good that we are now investing thousands of engineering hours globally to fix this.

Several tech stacks require upgrades of their runtime, python is an ungodly mess with certifi, but yes. It's just 1% of your revenue.

Sorry, it's been a long week.

mixdup 55 minutes ago | parent

I mean, yeah I get your point but also if these pieces of the stack weren't prepared to deal with a compromised CA, then they were also at least a little bit negligent. There's always a chance this is going to happen. There's a chance it could happen and there not be any negligence or incompetence on the part of the CA

But at the end of the day if you're not prepared to revoke the trust of any CA you trust, it's a you problem

tetha 53 minutes ago | parent

It's the attitude that riles me.

This demonstrates how hard we are messed up in a CA revocation. But no need to rub it in like that, is there?

andix 46 minutes ago | parent

Good point. I get why some stacks use their own trust stores and not the system trust store. But there should be some mechanism to revoke trust to some of the CAs, without applying patches or rebuilding. Even if its just a convention based /etc/certs/revoked-certs file.

purplesyringa 44 minutes ago | parent

As I understand it, the reason for so much work is that eMudhra was not a root CA. It wasn't added to any official root CA list, instead it was signed by a different root CA with the assumption that eMudhra will complete the work required to become a root CA and this hack will become unnecessary. This is a common, temporary process. So while all the mechanisms for root CA revocation were in place, no one was quite prepared for intermediate certificate revocation.

trvz 38 minutes ago | parent

The root CA should have been revoked then.

intorio 19 minutes ago | parent

This is just wrong though, they were a root CA. There was cross-signing which is typical, but their `emSign ECC Root CA - G3` root certificate was in most CA bundles.

mixdup 19 minutes ago | parent

Take out the word root from my original reply. If you aren't prepared to immediately stop trusting a CA--root, intermediate, internal, then your process is broken

"no one was quite prepared for intermediate certificate revocation" is actually worse because as an intermediate CA, they obviously didn't meet the requirements to be a full root CA, so why wouldn't they be more likely to need revocation than a root? Honestly more negligent than being unable to revoke a root.

wat10000 8 minutes ago | parent

It looks to me like the world was decently prepared to deal with it. The bad certificates are being blocked and there don't appear to be widespread compromises.

That doesn't mean it's cheap or easy, or that it's reasonable for the responsible party to brush off all the havoc they've caused.

post-it 55 minutes ago | parent

Yes, but in the end that's not their fault, and in a sense it's good that this happened. It was well understood from the invention of security certificates that private keys might leak and certificates will need to be revoked. Systems that were not designed with this in mind should never have been deployed, and should now be decommissioned and replaced.

It might even be sensible to intentionally revoke a small number of certificates every month, to make sure nobody is complacent.

hluska 35 minutes ago | parent

> It might even be sensible to intentionally revoke a small number of certificates every month, to make sure nobody is complacent.

No, this is not even remotely sensible.

noitpmeder 28 minutes ago | parent

Failure paths that are not exercised with regularity will inevitably fail in surprising ways when actually needed.

sophacles 28 minutes ago | parent

It really is. It's basically chaos monkey for pki.

Code paths and procedures that aren't exercised regularly are broken.

Even better is having a way to reoke keys and big players occasionally include revoked keys in trust chains and blast a warning if the revoked key is considered valid.

Zobat 34 minutes ago | parent

Google has decided to stop trusting certificates with dual purpose (server and client) and managed to negotiate a decrease in the maximum (SSL/TLS) certificate lifetime because certificate revocation doesn't work.

We've had to rework part of our application and certificate use because of this.

hobofan 33 minutes ago | parent

Kind of what Let's encrypt did for automating certificate rotation.

Let's call it "Let's Decrypt!"

throw0101c 30 minutes ago | parent

> Yes, but in the end that's not their fault, and in a sense it's good that this happened.

I am reminded of the US DST changes back in the 2000s: there was all sorts of drama because a lot of software is written in the US, and there was much 'computerization' in the 1990s, but US coders had never personally experienced a DST rule change during that time period, so any change needed a reboot to pick up the new rules.

That drama led to (e.g.) periodic dynamic checking of /etc/localtime on various Unix-y system.

Sometimes you don't realize that things can be improved until to experience situations in which they currently suck.

kccqzy 17 minutes ago | parent

Tell Congress to change the rules again soon, lest a new generation of programmers become complacent and hardcode transitions again. Many current junior programmers don’t remember the 2000s rule change.

I can even hear this conversation happening: what? I need to open this America/Los_Angeles file just to convert a timestamp? What pretentious overengineering! I want a single-file executable with zero dependencies. Let me hard code the rules.

ryukoposting 23 minutes ago | parent

The number of awesome things we're going to get as a result of this is exciting to think about.

My wife bought this fuckass IoT air purifier that's constantly phoning home. I'm gonna figure out what it's telling the mothership.

blmarket 17 minutes ago | parent

It rages me as well. Some random attacker could have MITM attack any https website without being noticed by anyone(including eMudhra), surely it won't contribute any to their revenue!

_def 59 minutes ago | parent

you can't fire me -- i quit!!

farhanhubble 57 minutes ago | parent

Why was anyone using certificates from a little known company with no cybersecurity muscle?

denysvitali 56 minutes ago | parent

Worse yet, why is that CA even part of the Root CAs shipped on all the modern devices?

My trust in those vetting the CAs is completely broken now.

kijin 25 minutes ago | parent

It's not. It's an intermediate CA who somehow managed to convince a root CA to sign their public key.

denysvitali 7 minutes ago | parent

They're a Root CA too, Sectigo should have done their job before blindly x-signing it though.

baobabKoodaa 39 minutes ago | parent

Web PKI doesn't work like you think it does. I can use eMudhra's private keys to forge a cert for your website. You don't have a choice in this.

lokar 10 minutes ago | parent

It mostly does not matter. They don’t have your private key, and EVERY trusted CA can miss-issue in your name, regardless of who you pick.

That’s sort of the problem the CA forum (badly) addresses. The consumers of the CAs are not specifically exposed to failures of the CA they choose.

maratc 4 minutes ago | parent

You might have heard of this "sovereignty" movement: sovereign OS, sovereign cloud, sovereign AI?

One man's "little known company with no cybersecurity muscle" is another one's "sovereign certificate infrastructure."

altmanaltman 56 minutes ago | parent

Once you make a mistake like that, you're basically gone four ever

zoobab 55 minutes ago | parent

Do they accept invoices for patching their security flaws?

Are they liable?

rahimnathwani 55 minutes ago | parent

"There were no end entity certificates issued out of the affected CA’s."

This seems like a weird statement given that anyone can issue certificates out of the affected CAs.

trollbridge 47 minutes ago | parent

Well, none came out of the Certificate Authority.

They just didn't mention that now anyone can be their own Certificate Authority.

sidewndr46 21 minutes ago | parent

So I guess October 2026 will be forever remembered as CA freedom day? can we all retire certbot now and just issue out our own certs

bottlepalm 54 minutes ago | parent

Everybody laughed when they said GPT-2 wasn’t safe to release. This is the tip of the iceberg.

skinfaxi 52 minutes ago | parent

LLMs had nothing to do with this.

bottlepalm 41 minutes ago | parent

You spent the last 4 years coping; calling AI a stochastic parrot, and saying the warnings were all marketing. You wasted 4 years. Good job.

knottn 36 minutes ago | parent

I think we live in an age where programming mistakes should be attributed to llm by default. In the old days, it was just the coder and stack overflow to blame, now its layer on layer of ai assisted work, from ceo level on down. Something we haven’t perfected yet: how to prove 0 ai use in a product. Until we get there, we have to assume llm are everywhere and that their use carries liability risk.

rvz 54 minutes ago | parent

At this point, they probably asked Claude or another chatbot how to change the root CA key and realized that is was too late.

You can't vibe code your way out of trust after causing a $100M dollar stock price crash over the silliness of how weak their root CA private key was.

tomrod 53 minutes ago | parent

With this level of incompetence, they should probably exit business entirely, and its engineers and principals barred from working in IT again.

dan_p 52 minutes ago | parent

I'm surprised they didn't announce they're going into hiding instead.

b3lvedere 52 minutes ago | parent

"eMudhra’s global SSL/TLS infrastructure runs separately from its other operations. The company’s Global digital signature certificate (DSC), eSign, and other signing services, including those in India, its enterprise PKI Solutions (emCA, CertiNext platforms), emSigner eSignature Suite, and its identity and authentication solutions (SecurePass, emAS) are not affected and continue to operate as normal."

So they didn't even use their own certificates? :)

weird-eye-issue 45 minutes ago | parent

Why would they? They weren't secure! ;)

trimbo 51 minutes ago | parent

> There were no end entity certificates issued out of the affected CA’s

Adding "out of the affected CA's" is top PR weasel wording that will slip by non-technical people who read this.

Congratulations to those who wrote or prompted this statement.

tamimio 51 minutes ago | parent

Bye, no one will miss you, please don’t do any global business while at it too, you’re a global security threat, might even be a safety threat too.

Toutouxc 50 minutes ago | parent

Somehow this is making it even worse. Like, I'm having issues explaining the whole thing to my wife, because I can't come up with a metaphor or parable that's even remotely as ridiculous as what they've done. Anyone's got a good one?

Maybe, like, setting up a factory that builds both LHD and RHD cars and building cars with two passenger seats in the front for two years straight without anyone noticing?

vzmax 45 minutes ago | parent

A car manufacturer that reused the same car key for every car.

intrikate 41 minutes ago | parent

Beyond that, they didn't even properly key the key! They carved one notch in by hand!

whilenot-dev 39 minutes ago | parent

And the key is a LEGO brick.

dzdt 28 minutes ago | parent

And the key has no notches, and so inserting a screwdriver into the lock and turning works just as well as using the key.

bengotow 26 minutes ago | parent

I think this is the best parable - a master key with no notches.

hawk_ 7 minutes ago | parent

4 notches

ProllyInfamous 28 minutes ago | parent

>I can't come up with a metaphor or parable that's even remotely as ridiculous as what they've done

The best example I can think is (some) international borders: yeah, they're heavily regulated entities with lots of written protections (and thousands of miles of impenitrable barricades), but occassionally a hole opens up (whether physically or engineered).

Perhaps a section of border fence is occassionally destroyed (and people sneak in), but this won't happen if the border guards are approving [false] passports from a compromised government actor ("they have a valid passport, according to our inspection"), the border fence doesn't even matter!

Presume anybody can now go to that bad-passport-issuing government and request a passport to then enter any other country (i.e. the other country will see the passport as valid in the official global database): BAM, borders no longer mean anything; welcome to Privileged Accessia.

throwaway98797 23 minutes ago | parent

concrete manufacture occasionally builds houses.

house collapses and people get injured.

concrete manufacture says we no longer build houses cause it’s too small of a business.

rustyminnow 20 minutes ago | parent

In the old days a king would "sign" his proclamations by pressing his "unforgeable" signet into a wax seal. This proved the authenticity of the proclamation.

Normally, the king would declare and sign a proc stating that anything signed by his secretary's "unforgeable" signet was to be respected as well. The secretary could delegate authority to others in turn.

Well turns out that one of the signets in the chain of trust was just a picture of a "four" that anybody could have forged, but nobody noticed because in all of the ceremony and stacks of parchment with wax seals, nobody actually checked if the signet was secure.

crizzlenizzle 50 minutes ago | parent

Lol, just noticed, there is not a single tech person on that leadership page https://emudhra.com/en/leadership

tristor 45 minutes ago | parent

True, but the founder's two sons are at the top of the company, so mission was accomplished regardless.

Really though, this is no different than people relying on accountancy firms in the rest of the world for "trust" and "security" as technology concepts. Accountancy firms have no business consulting on technology topics, and yet that is a major part of their business all over the world, because we've allowed "security" and "compliance" to become muddled concepts.

b3lvedere 40 minutes ago | parent

"His profound understanding of the digital security landscape has been instrumental in eMudhra's global expansion and innovation."

We have established he could at least count to 4 :)

edf13 41 minutes ago | parent

> Kaushik holds a Bachelor's in Computer Engineering (member of Tau Beta Pi) and a Master's in Computer Engineering with a focus on Networking

First one I clicked on?

rdtsc 49 minutes ago | parent

> However, the level of social media amplification around this incident has brought scrutiny that is out of proportion to SSL/TLS’s place in our business

Scrutiny is inversely proportional to bit complexity of the private keys they used. Without a failure to apologize or expose how it happened: a human mistake, process mistake, etc. this looks pretty bad on them.

> eMudhra’s global SSL/TLS infrastructure runs separately from its other operations. The company’s Global digital signature certificate (DSC), eSign, and other signing services, including those in India, its enterprise PKI Solutions (emCA, CertiNext platforms), emSigner eSignature Suite, and its identity and authentication solutions (SecurePass, emAS) are not affected and continue to operate as norma

Anyone relying on them with anything related to security or trust is playing Russian roulette at this point.

cromka 48 minutes ago | parent

I just wonder how many times private keys were lost by or stolen from by slightly less incompetent companies?

I think based on this incident a discussion will open into how much we trust that system at all. With the level of espionage tactics some countries are keen to show the rest of the world, I personally assume absolutely anything can be sniffed.

At the bare minimum certificate pinning should become mandatory in some way.

cellover 47 minutes ago | parent

Wow this press release is a real PR disaster. It's really just about their business value. Starting the statement with "a global digital trust company" is so ironic on that context.

serf 45 minutes ago | parent

now the question for the media for the next week :

ban LLM discovery of horrendous security practices because as it turns out security-thru-obscurity is being practiced as 'good enough' across the world , or actually enforce realistic and livable security practice ?

given the insistence on picking overblown and totally partisan poor choices lately, I presume the media will sit on the side of 'we'll just ban LLMs from checking the rest of our security apparatus for single digit keys' and charge 'Wayne' with terrorism statutes.' -- but hopefully i'm just being a jaded pessimist.

navigate8310 42 minutes ago | parent

Beware even the countries internet regulatory authority (NIC) issued rogue certificates in past, about time NIC's root certificates should be ejected once and for all.

https://security.googleblog.com/2014/07/maintaining-digital-...

baobabKoodaa 37 minutes ago | parent

Disgusting. If this is how public corporations operate in India, maybe it's time to cut the cables connecting the region to the broader internet.

wiradikusuma 35 minutes ago | parent

"Trust Delivered". Eh..

CSMastermind 32 minutes ago | parent

I'm curious how they got into the business in the first place.

From everything that came out they seem terribly unqualified.

Zobat 30 minutes ago | parent

> "There were no end entity certificates issued"

Isn't the problem that anyone can/could issue end entity certificates with those certificates as "parent"?

ethin 28 minutes ago | parent

All I'll say in response is: Good!

If this company was so incompetent that their private keys were a single byte, I seriously wonder what other areas they're incompetent in but that they've ventured into anyway. When you fail so spectacularly and so publicly at something like being a certificate authority, in the manner that eMudra did, it's rather hard not to wonder.

nolist_policy 28 minutes ago | parent

Reminds me when Trustcor CA got booted off the root stores: https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-polic...

Popcorn recommended for the read!

sergiotapia 26 minutes ago | parent

The izzat must be protected at all cost!

moribvndvs 18 minutes ago | parent

> eMudhra handled the recent incident diligently, revoking the affected CAs within 14 hours of discovery

Is 14 hours a diligent response time for something like this?

shadowgovt 16 minutes ago | parent

"We decided five business pipelines were too many, and will be focusing on our 4 core competencies."

~ Not a quote from the press release

drdexebtjl 13 minutes ago | parent

[delayed]

BurnGpuBurn 12 minutes ago | parent

I was already counting on this in my head: Private key, private key, 3, 2, 1...

nayuki 11 minutes ago | parent

> About eMudhra / With over 17 years of expertise, eMudhra is a global provider of digital identity, trust, and security solutions, enabling secure digital transformation for banks and financial institutions (BFSI), enterprises, and governments across more than 35 countries worldwide. Its product suite spans CertiNext

I was hoping the statement at the bottom would be written in past tense: eMudhra was a global provider of digital identity ... had temporarily enabled secure digital transformation ... Its product suite spanned CertiNext...

bob1029 7 minutes ago | parent

> All physical and logical security controls remained intact.

Did the HSM have a fault, or was the key generation script at fault?

I suspect the later given the choice to exit the business. If they had strong evidence that a FIPS-compliant HSM misbehaved, I suspect they'd be more willing to fight this.