156 points laurenth 1 hour ago 102 comments
matheusmoreira 1 hour ago | parent
Gotta look on the bright side. Bolsonaro was closer to US interests than I'd like. If the elected right wing senate manages to at least impeach some supreme court justices next year, I'm going to be OK with this.
I submitted the news too and it got flagged:
epolanski 59 minutes ago | parent
thatsnogood123 55 minutes ago | parent
matheusmoreira 13 minutes ago | parent
lukan 58 minutes ago | parent
Both candidates supported that decision.
bakies 56 minutes ago | parent
matheusmoreira 24 minutes ago | parent
It's also inconsistent with the court's own precedent. Extending voting hours was deemed illegal back in 2022. "Everybody had the chance to vote", said Alexandre de Moraes.
After Lula lost in the 1st round, suddenly it became legal again. The irony is not lost on me. That's the pattern with the leftist judges in the courts. The supreme court judge who decided it used to be Lula's own lawyer.
gtirloni 53 minutes ago | parent
Please review the HN guidelines:
johntitor23 53 minutes ago | parent
Many cities had their mayor cancelling free public transportation and stopping people from going voting. Extending the time is a reaction, not a first action. Furthermore, the ask didn't come just from Lula's party, it came from both candidates [1].
2022 Brazil had the Federal Police Director actively interfering with transportation as well.
[1] - https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/eleicoes/o-que-diz-o-codigo-ele...
matheusmoreira 46 minutes ago | parent
They called for extension back in 2022 too, and it was ruled illegal. "Everybody had the chance to vote", said Alexandre de Moraes.
subw00f 53 minutes ago | parent
spolitry 51 minutes ago | parent
Can you explain?
You are right winger but don't like the Brazilian right wing aligning with the US right wing, but do like the politicians who are aligned with the US right wing?
matheusmoreira 37 minutes ago | parent
Bolsonaro generally supports privatizing Brazilian state companies and selling them off to foreigners. I don't want that. Especially not to the US and Israel.
Lula on the other hand is better aligned with China, which is also what I want.
Lula and myself are aligned on these two points. So this outcome is not entirely bad for me.
The problem I have with Lula is his party's obnoxious taxation, lack of a real plan for reindustrialization, continuous defense of criminals, and most importantly, his total domination of the supreme court. I voted for the right specifically to see those judges impeached and imprisoned, because I absolutely oppose everything they did in 2022, far more than I ever opposed Lula himself. I'm of the opinion that presidents and elections barely matter anymore, because it's the supreme court that runs the country. It's the Venezuela governance model: president appoints god-like supreme court judges and rules monocratically through them.
The 1st round this month was such an upset not because of Bolsonaro but because of the senate. They are the ones who can impeach supreme court judges, and when Brazil unexpectedly elected a right wing majority in the senate, it struck true fear into the court. This was our chance to completely wipe out that court and forever change the history of this country, like Bukele did for El Salvador.
While in the end the necessary victory didn't materialize, Brazilian senate is still absolute majority right wing now, and they could still impeach those judges. I'm not going to hold out hope for that anymore, but if I see at least one judge bite the dust I'll still call it a major win.
free_bip 47 minutes ago | parent
lenkite 46 minutes ago | parent
armchairhacker 41 minutes ago | parent
matheusmoreira 17 minutes ago | parent
This time around, some guy in Lula's party created "Lula's Army", a channel with millions of people in it. Suddenly, it was fine.
They used to cry about "fake news" and call for censorship at every opportunity, and they'd get it because they own the courts. Now they were the ones spreading "fake news" of all sorts. Did they get censored? Nah.
Censorship in Brazil is unconstitutional, by the way. Political censorship is doubly so. It doesn't matter, because they own the supreme court.
There are now laws in Brazil, there is only what the supreme court wants. Whatever they write on a piece of paper becomes law, and police obeys it. They are the true seat of power in this country.
762236 14 minutes ago | parent
matheusmoreira 10 minutes ago | parent
Debating politics with the Chinese on X taught me a lot and allowed me to move past left/right labels. My personal politics turned out to be a mix between what people call left and right wing ideologies.
abdelhousni 57 minutes ago | parent
brazukadev 57 minutes ago | parent
Polymarket was like 80% Bolsonaro Jr to 20% Lula 7pm, 7:15 it changed to 60% Lula. There were multiple reports in the news websites about it favoring Bolsonaro which itself probably made some people vote for him.
I'm quite happy with the result tho. Let's see how the far right opposition will take this loss. I'm already expecting the worse.
mulderc 52 minutes ago | parent
medellin 51 minutes ago | parent
smuhakg 49 minutes ago | parent
jeffbee 36 minutes ago | parent
axus 44 minutes ago | parent
furyofantares 34 minutes ago | parent
I think as humans we are really bad at intuition about probabilities, and it being an election only makes it much worse. I don't think anyone is consciously conflating these with poll numbers but percentages of voters are the numbers we see a lot more than prediction markets, and 80% is idunno an 80% chance of getting between 50% and 54% of the vote or something.
alpha_squared 29 minutes ago | parent
augusto-moura 34 minutes ago | parent
medellin 52 minutes ago | parent
bryanlarsen 37 minutes ago | parent
estebank 34 minutes ago | parent
platevoltage 33 minutes ago | parent
subdude 56 minutes ago | parent
nemomarx 53 minutes ago | parent
wraptile 21 minutes ago | parent
lotsofpulp 16 minutes ago | parent
xvedejas 15 minutes ago | parent
thimabi 51 minutes ago | parent
Now he will face a much bigger opposition in Congress and therefore will have to find a middle ground.
I expect his policies to move even further to the right. This might pave the way for his vice-president Alckmin, a historical right-winger, to run in the 2030 elections — likely against São Paulo’s governor Tarcísio de Freitas, also a right-winger and considered more moderate than the Bolsonaros despite being associated with them.
(reposting my own comment from a related thread)
nemomarx 50 minutes ago | parent
thimabi 25 minutes ago | parent
runarberg 48 minutes ago | parent
nielsbot 39 minutes ago | parent
supjeff 50 minutes ago | parent
colordrops 46 minutes ago | parent
p-e-w 30 minutes ago | parent
afavour 27 minutes ago | parent
Well it does change which voters decide the results. A lot of electoral systems seek to constantly redress imbalance by having impartial bodies redraw district lines as populations shift. It is a shame the US does not. Gerrymandering is fundamentally undemocratic.
andersonpico 18 minutes ago | parent
xoa 13 minutes ago | parent
I don't know the specifics of Brazil's system, but at least in the US gerrymandering has nothing to do with the Presidency or Senate, only the House. It's also not without risky. Gerrymandering is bad, but it doesn't change the totals of votes; it attempts to reapportion "excess" votes yielding a large win margin in one area to give winning, but necessarily smaller, margins in more areas. Amongst other challenges though that smaller margin means if there is a wave then a gerrymander can turn into a "dummymander" where previously safe districts get flipped.
>funny business
This is actually pretty dang hard in anything but a total sham, and even then is at least obvious it happened. Some timy fiddling at the margins may be possible to sneak through, and yeah some elections that might make the difference. But that can't counter any serious victory. The more common technique seems to be trying to suppress the vote. But as well as also not being trivial it also too risks backfiring by motivating people much harder. There is a lot of human psychology around "loss", people often absolutely hate things being taken from them even if they were complacent about having them.
brunoborges 6 minutes ago | parent
Must win by 50% plus 1 of all valid votes on Round 1. If not, 1st and 2nd most voted go for Round 2 a few weeks later. Then, 50%+1 again of all valid votes.
dvdyzag 44 minutes ago | parent
ryan_n 41 minutes ago | parent
jeffbee 38 minutes ago | parent
georgemcbay 31 minutes ago | parent
epihelix 12 minutes ago | parent
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Elon+Musk%2CAl...
Make of that what you will.
so-gala-massey 10 minutes ago | parent
coeneedell 40 minutes ago | parent
ceejayoz 37 minutes ago | parent
Thrymr 35 minutes ago | parent
sergiotapia 27 minutes ago | parent
Need I say more?
platevoltage 22 minutes ago | parent
MattDamonSpace 23 minutes ago | parent
mahmoudhossam 17 minutes ago | parent
Ygg2 17 minutes ago | parent
Telaneo 14 minutes ago | parent
georgemcbay 12 minutes ago | parent
A major reason it isn't working for now is because Donald Trump is, in addition to being a corrupt autocrat, incredibly incompetent. We shouldn't have to rely on that.
johnnyanmac 5 minutes ago | parent
762236 19 minutes ago | parent
hinow 49 minutes ago | parent
bguberfain 48 minutes ago | parent
zorked 21 minutes ago | parent
soneca 36 minutes ago | parent
It won for Bolsonaro whose campaign nailed it in 2018. It didn’t win in 2022 because he was completely bad in dealing with pandemics (mocking people dying and saying he had nothing to do with it being president).
Now, Lula’s campaign was absolutely dead during the whole time. Until it lost in the legislative by a mile and in the President run had a partial loss in the first round. Then the campaign lit up after the partial upset.
Janones, an energetic young guy elected to legislative with good online presence led the campaign. He achieved creating a WhatsApp group with 11 million people called “Lula’s army”. He would give the directions and the people would obey almost blindly.
The interwebs (basically WhatsApp + Instagram) got flooded with this top to bottom Lula’s campaign.
The first round results made Bolsonaro very favorite. Lula victory was a huge upset. I put the merit in this incessant social media campaign.
The thing is: “centrally planned cohesive campaign” looks a lot like a cult. The point of the campaign is not critical thought or argumentation, it is incessant messaging. Think fandoms.
Bolsonaro voters pejorative nickname from past campaigns was they were all “cattle”. Because that is how they behaved online. Ironically, what worked for Lula voters this year was they behaving like “cattle”. Just reposting and following this central orders on what to post, what to say, what to dress.
The thing is, it works. Cult-like fandoms work in elections. The right won a few elections like this in the world. In Brazil, the left just learned how to do it was well.
The more mindless posters a politician has following their campaign HQ orders, the more votes they have.
brazukadev 34 minutes ago | parent
swingandamiss 20 minutes ago | parent
aliasxneo 12 minutes ago | parent
fn-mote 15 minutes ago | parent
It can be better than the alternatives and still not good.