73 points rbanffy 1 day ago 10 comments
InsidiousWombat 2 hours ago | parent
toast0 2 hours ago | parent
It doesn't sound like they've stopped investing in research in general. Just one specific area.
"We've been working on this for decades and can't figure out how to commercialize it, so we're going to try different things" is a healthy result, even if other companies got different results.
octoberfranklin 1 hour ago | parent
https://semiwiki.com/forum/threads/samsung-teases-16-layer-3...
spankalee 1 hour ago | parent
adrian_b 28 minutes ago | parent
Searching for the Micron patent on 6F^2 cells (US 6,975,531) is much more informative.
The essence of the problem is the following. An ideal memory array cell is formed at the intersection of a vertical line with a horizontal line. A line has the width 2F (i.e. metal width + spacing width), so the area of the cell is 2F * 2F = 4F^2.
Instead of that, most DRAM cells are at the intersection of 2 horizontal lines with 1 vertical line. The single line is a bidirectional data line with the value of the stored bit, while the pair of lines are a write select line and a read select line.
Using separate read and write transistors provides better performance.
The naive layout for a cell where 2 lines intersect with 1 line has an area of 2F * 4F = 8F^2.
An optimized layout where many parts are stacked one over the other and where some lines are shared by adjacent cells, so the spacings are omitted, can have the smaller area of 2F * 3F = 6F^2.
In the 6F^2 cell, there are are 3 transistors, but they have the drain stacked over the source and one transistor is stacked above another, to minimize area.
To make a 4F^2 DRAM cell, there are various approaches, e.g. one could try to stack even more components vertically, but it is not obvious whether the much higher processing cost is compensated by the reduced die area.
Micron claims that despite the reduced area the cost would be higher, while the competitors, including the Chinese, claim the opposite.
toast0 20 minutes ago | parent
In the diagram for 8F Squared, there's a capacitor at every other junction between word lines and bit lines. If the lines (and inter line spacing) are 2F wide, you have one bit in a 2Fx4F rectangle, or one bit per 8F squared.
In the diagram for 6F Squared, there's a capacitor at every bit line on every other word line. If the lines (and inter line spacing) are 2F wide, you have one bits in each 2Fx3F Rectangle, or one bit per 6F squared. (I guess the word lines without bits are needed for spacing or to drive the transistor or maybe it's just illustration and doesn't mean much)
In the diagram for 4F Squared, there's a transistor at every bit line on every word line. Now you have a bit in every 2Fx2F square, or one bit per 4F Squared.
If you can make dram in all three styles with the same F, 4F squared is twice the density as 8F squared. If the F doesn't hold constant, it's squishier, of course.
Danieru 1 hour ago | parent
When the actual truth is they are sticking with the old thing. Reframed as a choice.
If "Ditching 4f" is such a good idea, why show their hand right before their competitors make the foolish choice of releasing it? Why not hold your cards until afterwards?
Unless perhaps this isn't a brilliant strategy but instead a spin for the investors?
brudgers 49 minutes ago | parent
I suspect it is because Micron is a publicly traded company, its management has to answer questions from the investor community.
And because DRAM is a commodity business, profits in the long term are possible even if a company does not win first-to-market profits.
Finally, there is always a market segment that is not betting on the new technology when it is new.
TrainedMonkey 40 minutes ago | parent
It's a public company that is beholden to the shareholders. They have to explain what they are doing. But I agree with you, seems sus. Even if you can make more money by scaling the old tech today, that does not justify dropping the future innovation. Especially because by all accounts they are swimming in cash... Unless they are telling the truth and 4f extra complexity does not justify extra cost. I really have no context to evaluate that.
SecretDreams 23 minutes ago | parent
This is not unlike the strategy the US employed to win the space race after they were quite behind in said race. It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off! (I'm not confident since I don't find the CEO to be anything more than a margin chaser).