155 points input_sh 1 hour ago 101 comments
vasco 1 hour ago | parent
mwidell 59 minutes ago | parent
jamiejquinn 54 minutes ago | parent
eru 42 minutes ago | parent
> but I didn't realise it was so strong on corruption.
That's literally a core part of the brand, isn't it?
HPsquared 23 minutes ago | parent
Edit: which makes sense, because technocracy leans heavily on trust (in the experts).
protocolture 54 minutes ago | parent
Lots of governments just end up with career lawyers and politicians.
They can choose their advisors and their advice.
The more varied experts you can get into parliament, the more likely you have an on the record disagreement from an expert preventing a politician from choosing the incorrect advice that suits them better.
Thats not to say they are going to be any better for corruption, but in todays world there are so many deep silos that governments just completely step over and disregard.
itscomplexetc 51 minutes ago | parent
hardbass 45 minutes ago | parent
eru 41 minutes ago | parent
Actually, not. They had a few left-over from when Germany had a functioning state, but the Nazis were overall fairly incompetent at actually running the country.
karmakurtisaani 27 minutes ago | parent
avadodin 40 minutes ago | parent
Either the Delusional Leftist Against AI Bro Award or the Delusional AI Bro Against Leftist Award.
DC-3 29 minutes ago | parent
rurban 25 minutes ago | parent
But he was extremely successful as manager then. Just like the ex-NAZI NASA leader then a bit later.
That was the golden time of German management.
shevy-java 51 minutes ago | parent
Hardly. But it depends on who is on board.
Corruption exists everywhere. Do you think that Vukic was less corrupt? I am pretty certain you will find many people in Serbia who want to fix the country. Other Europeans would ask: why let only poor countries join? They drain money from richer countries. Switzerland and Norway will never join and they know why. Hint: there is a reason they are rich. Second hint: they got rich without the EU.
Which country got rich with the EU? I don't know of a single one. Germany was already wealthy before the EU was founded. France is now in debt crisis from which it can not escape, so it will drag the whole EU down.
sparkling 44 minutes ago | parent
Poland? >250 billion Euros received in subsidies since joining the EU; almost any construction you walk by has the "Funded by EU" poster next to it.
I think the massive service and outsourcing industry would also not have been possible (at the current scale) without EU membership.
czw2 43 minutes ago | parent
dancing 11 minutes ago | parent
https://www.euronews.com/2024/12/09/eu-budget-who-pays-the-m...
cicko 43 minutes ago | parent
varjag 42 minutes ago | parent
wiseowise 41 minutes ago | parent
eru 41 minutes ago | parent
Poland and the other new members in the East, probably?
pasc1878 30 minutes ago | parent
eru 27 minutes ago | parent
However I broadly agree otherwise.
msm_ 15 minutes ago | parent
allendoerfer 29 minutes ago | parent
Switzerland is the opposite of a state being "without the EU".
RubberbandSoul 34 minutes ago | parent
dzonga 29 minutes ago | parent
they grew up on communist rhetoric, got support from communist countries - so their main ideology had already failed in the real world. so accumulating degrees without practical experience is a recipe for failure as seen in most african countries.
pixelpoet 26 minutes ago | parent
itissid 21 minutes ago | parent
In a muddled political system(democratic or otherwise) today its about power and how is it balanced. When Nandan Nilekani was creating India's UIDAI(the national aadhar system), he insisted that he would only do the project if he was given a cabinet level post[1]. His is one of the few technology examples to succeed in India when most large government run projects are a disaster. ISRO is probably another decent example of success. I think Nilekani succeeded because he had a clear moral compass and a defined goal.
But there is a problem with kings, soon they have an asshole child. Metaphorically speaking at least. UIDAI is being used stupidly enough like an SSN now and in ways it was never meant to be.
[1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/10/03/the-i-d-man
small_model 57 minutes ago | parent
krona 54 minutes ago | parent
_def 46 minutes ago | parent
Gander5739 46 minutes ago | parent
InsidiousWombat 45 minutes ago | parent
freecodeio 44 minutes ago | parent
locallost 57 minutes ago | parent
eru 44 minutes ago | parent
hahamaster 38 minutes ago | parent
rijavecb 33 minutes ago | parent
safety1st 24 minutes ago | parent
The essential factor in whether a state is good or bad for the people at large is arguably whether you can draw a clear line around which sorts of favoritism are permitted and which are outlawed as corrupt, and actually achieve enforcement when people in power inevitably break these rules. A cardiologist, bioarchaeologist and a physicist are going to know nothing about all of this. Their job is to work with the incumbent bureaucrats and elites who hold the real power in that society and those people will almost certainly run circles around them. Fantasyland Reddit politics consists of making aggressive, principled statements. Real world politics is about recognizing you have to deal with a ton of people who are quite frequently awful but because they've managed to cling to one lever of influence or another you can't ignore them. They are moving things in a the direction you don't want them to go every day so what do you do about them? Jail them? Kill them? Buy them off? Cut a deal with them? Make them see reason even though it's against their personal interest because you're just that smart? (lol!) You can't ignore them. It's nothing like the deterministic systems all these people have studied. I wish them luck but I think I know how this is gonna end.
duke_sam 56 minutes ago | parent
I really hope their success carries over into governance.
akie 18 minutes ago | parent
There's definitely a chance of failure here.
vconnor 6 minutes ago | parent
rightnutwingjob 2 minutes ago | parent
Diverse? Over-educated university graduates is possibly the least diverse set of thinkers one could hope to find.
> Dozens of them come from the academic world, and more than half have a Ph.D. or M.D.
Lord help up. This is going to be demonstration of hubris and an exercise in arrogance.
andrewstuart 55 minutes ago | parent
Scharkenberg 51 minutes ago | parent
amiga386 41 minutes ago | parent
He clearly redirected the railway station maintenance budget to his friends instead, because he assumed the public were suckers who'd vote him back in no matter how badly he fucked up. Then the station canopy collapsed and killed people. Entirely avoidable.
When your leaders are nakedly corrupt, and through sheer luck you still have free and fair elections, you vote those fuckers out. Otherwise they'll fiddle while your country burns.
It looks like the public want someone else in charge, they'll give them a fair shake. Maybe the new lot will direct the treasure more appropriately.
wiseowise 38 minutes ago | parent
londons_explore 53 minutes ago | parent
itscomplexetc 49 minutes ago | parent
Ampersander 36 minutes ago | parent
tgv 10 minutes ago | parent
shevy-java 52 minutes ago | parent
Hungary has this problem by the way - people thought Péter Magyar will fix, and change, Hungary. Recently Hungary signed a "we are ultra-right servants of Trump" in the USA (see https://telex.hu/english/2026/10/30/hungarian-fm-and-rubio-s...), thus validating all those who pointed out that Peter is just a younger face but the same Orban 2.0 in the end.
Corruption runs very, very deep. I am also certain the Epstein network is not only much bigger than known, but has different actors and beneficiaries. To this day the US court system can not explain why only Maxwell is in prison. That makes logically - and logistically - no sense at all.
mgrandl 43 minutes ago | parent
And I also don’t think you can compare Magyar pre- and post election to the new Serbian elected government at all. But I do agree actually producing enough noticeable change until the next election will be hard for both. It just takes time to unfuck countries.
skrebbel 40 minutes ago | parent
idiotsecant 50 minutes ago | parent
What will happen here will strongly depend on how good these people are at actually playing the game of politics. I don't have any particular reason to be more or less optimistic than any regular slate of politicians.
ownagefool 35 minutes ago | parent
It's entirly possible that the experiment fails because of politics, but it's also possible that the amount of politics is simply lower because people are simply more reasonable.
The last part will come down to vested interest and ideologues.
prmph 28 minutes ago | parent
secondary_op 41 minutes ago | parent
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50300051
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5lwZU7Q5U0
US government-funded pro-opposition outlet BIRN through its Media Ownership Monitor Serbia project admits the central Student List media channels - N1 and Nova S - were created by former US director of the CIA David Petraeus via KKR and former US Ambassador to Serbia Cameron Munter;
The parent United Group was acquired and the media platforms built up from 2013-2014 onward as the center of opposition media in Serbia opposing Serbia’s existing leadership and institutions, and playing a central role in both “student protests” last year and the “Student List” movement this year;
United Group was only recently (earlier this year) acquired by Alpac Capital, but KKR still maintains an undisclosed amount of shares
with the move a likely an attempt to distance US involvement in the media network; When “leaderless” and “decentralized” protests are praised in the Western media, scroll down in the article where they eventually admit who the leaders and organizations are behind them, perform a simple internet search to identify the key people and investments making them possible to determine whether a movement is indigenous or the product of foreign interference;gostsamo 38 minutes ago | parent
amiga386 26 minutes ago | parent
It was my fellow countrymen, and their long held Eurosceptic views, that fucked us. Russia posting divisive pish in 2016 has nothing on our decades of native politicians and newspapers blaming Brussels for everything bad (often its their own policies being policywashed) and pretending everything good came from them.
exizt88 34 minutes ago | parent
well_ackshually 28 minutes ago | parent
Conspiracy would be saying that the US orchestrated the existence of the Student's list and created protests from thin air. Realism is that the US is very happy about any political destabilization that could favor their interest and will provide unofficial support wherever it's convenient for them.
wallaBBB 33 minutes ago | parent
ordinaryradical 31 minutes ago | parent
Or are you simply reproducing a regime’s narrative on here?
secondary_op 8 minutes ago | parent
It is doubtful he is pro-Russian, but he is surely anti-US.
Brian Berletic - an American industrial designer based in Bangkok, Thailand who has written under the pen name Tony Cartalucci
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNL4xoD5uMYruther4d 14 minutes ago | parent
prmph 34 minutes ago | parent
Dansvidania 32 minutes ago | parent
Then again, I might just be hoping it is so. Given that, sadly, similar movements elsewhere (perhaps with not as much laurel leaves) have quickly fallen apart. (5 star movement in Italy and Piraty in Czech Republic come to mind)
Hopefully the Serbian youths learned from them.
ChrisMarshallNY 24 minutes ago | parent
I would like to mention that when I was young, I figured that if young people ruled the world, then things would be much better. I was pretty sour on the bitter, cynical old farts that didn't have a stake in things, and had basically ruined our world.
Sound familiar?
After seeing what's happened in Silicon Valley, which is pretty much my "utopian dream," I have come to realize that young people can be much, much worse than "old farts."
Maximilien Robespierre was an intellectual.
oblio 14 minutes ago | parent
servo_sausage 1 minute ago | parent
bonoboTP 2 minutes ago | parent
servo_sausage 5 minutes ago | parent
In some ways it's the ultimate short term thinking, taking the mediocre but predictable steps, instead of risking the real world with its unbounded upsides.
Possibly that mindset is good in a parliament, but I wouldn't really classify it as long vs short term.
dzonga 32 minutes ago | parent
vs electing lawyers as done in other countries.
oblio 12 minutes ago | parent
willguest 32 minutes ago | parent
It is clear from populist approaches that conducting business-as-usual without any foundational knowledge is dangerous and leads to corruption and regulatory capture, and it is equally true that purely rationalist efforts neglect the messy nature of political governance and social complexity, leading to an overly narrow idea that ends up not serving the people it claims to support.
I expect that this government will rise or fall based on its ability to remain internally cohesive while also trying to resist (and hopefully influence) the many pressures that will be put on it by the regional and global vested interests.
feverzsj 26 minutes ago | parent
probably_wrong 5 minutes ago | parent
I'm not saying they will succeed, but they have been explicitly voted to fight the corruption you speak of.
jimmySixDOF 23 minutes ago | parent
But the idea of randomly selecting leaders as a leveling distribution is as old as Athens. We still practice it in Jury selection in much of the world.
So this experiment in Belgrade might be worth watching and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they outperform previous and regional governments.
Abishek_Muthian 13 minutes ago | parent
DataDaoDe 22 minutes ago | parent
I see this often in many areas. Perhaps they'll be lucky and have a few behavioral psychologists among them to maintain intellectual humility.
christina97 20 minutes ago | parent
ivell 18 minutes ago | parent
Best case would be multi-talented persons who have both IQ and EQ and good character. Just IQ is not enough.
ACCount39 9 minutes ago | parent
Intelligence is a tool - one that can be put to use against any problem. "Get diverse people to come to the table for compromises" is no exception.
ulfw 10 minutes ago | parent
watwut 6 minutes ago | parent
boccko_ 15 minutes ago | parent
gmerc 13 minutes ago | parent
aaa_aaa 8 minutes ago | parent
lifestyleguru 5 minutes ago | parent