210 points cisc 2 hours ago 199 comments
reactordev 1 hour ago | parent
XorNot 1 hour ago | parent
Whoever hits the right window on an electric ute is going to make bank (it's probably more about getting another battery price reduction at this point so you can throw energy at the aerodynamics and range issues).
cromka 1 hour ago | parent
anon7725 1 hour ago | parent
Australia has also seen an immense uptake in residential solar and batteries, driven by tariff-free imports from China.
p_j_w 1 hour ago | parent
The west? You mean the USA. Europe is happy to leave the past behind.
mc32 1 hour ago | parent
dnautics 1 hour ago | parent
Hikikomori 1 hour ago | parent
Sylarr 1 hour ago | parent
adaml_623 1 hour ago | parent
To be honest there are a few red flags in the comment we've replied to if you know what I mean
anon7725 1 hour ago | parent
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-...
adaml_623 1 hour ago | parent
Google says that in the last 5 years China has increased renewable from 464 GW to 1,840 GW
And fossil fuels from 1,250 GW to ~1,590 GW
So given they are increasing the mix of renewables I'm not sure doubling down on renewables is a good phrase
dnautics 1 hour ago | parent
https://www.forbes.com/sites/katharinabuchholz/2026/02/27/ch...
https://decarb.co/us-carbon-emissions-per-capita-a-20-year-t...
adaml_623 47 minutes ago | parent
I was wondering why you said doubling down and then said the US were increasing their renewable mix when China is doing that as well.
You obviously know the per capita emissions are lower from China because your WWI reference is to per capita.
dnautics 10 minutes ago | parent
tialaramex 26 minutes ago | parent
> us is currently at pre-WWI levels
This involves quite a lot of sleight of hand which I'll generously assume you didn't understand. Firstly the measure you're thinking of per capita rates, whereas the Greenhouse Effect only cares about total emissions which are of course enormously higher; Secondly this requires carefully choosing a brief window ("pre-WW1") when the US used almost only coal, producing a tremendous amount of CO2 for its relatively small population; Thirdly it just entirely ignores the amount of off-shoring everything anybody else makes and then ships to the US is magically carbon-free under this thinking.
dnautics 11 minutes ago | parent
bashtoni 1 hour ago | parent
It's not clear to me where Canada stands on this issue. I know they're an exporter of fuel to the US, so perhaps they are more US aligned on this? Sadly, I think this highlights the problem with Carney's middle powers idea - it's difficult to all work together when you have competing interests.
elchief 1 hour ago | parent
but the federal and ontario governments want to protect the auto industry in southern ontario
we did just let in something like 50,000 chinese vehicles this year though
BLKNSLVR 9 minutes ago | parent
Tesla's have been around the place for a while, but are also increasingly present, but are a greatly decreasing percentage of EVs.
Relevant stats: https://solarcalculator.com.au/blog/ev-sales-statistics/
0xbadcafebee 1 hour ago | parent
zamadatix 1 hour ago | parent
mulderc 1 hour ago | parent
jwallace98221 1 hour ago | parent
retinaros 1 hour ago | parent
sublinear 1 hour ago | parent
sleepyguy 51 minutes ago | parent
kube-system 36 minutes ago | parent
For example, the original VW Beetle from 1938 was sold in Mexico up until 2003.
And even models that are sold in different regions may lack some safety features in other regions: e.g. https://www.latinncap.com/en/result/44/chevrolet-spark-no-ai...
kube-system 41 minutes ago | parent
bigyabai 58 minutes ago | parent
If it isn't, it's certainly an advantage over the trashy EVs we have in America.
overfeed 28 minutes ago | parent
Markets elsewhere that consolidated down to the 2 or 3 domestic champions that settled into a comfortable coexistence with their domestic "competition", and are coddled by protectionist government policy will have a hard time remembering how to compete for real.
mikeryan 1 hour ago | parent
https://www.carscoops.com/2026/03/tariffs-kill-kias-hottest-...
AlotOfReading 1 hour ago | parent
The article is talking about a certain specialty model that's only produced in Korea, probably because it's low volume.
turtlebits 1 hour ago | parent
kccqzy 35 minutes ago | parent
Of course time will tell whether this brings failure rate down to be negligible. But I feel pretty confident.
tpm 1 hour ago | parent
seattle_spring 1 hour ago | parent
Not clear to me why they started it with such low inventory, but I ended up getting a new Leaf since I couldn't wait another bunch of months.
postepowanieadm 1 hour ago | parent
Hamuko 1 hour ago | parent
ajmurmann 1 hour ago | parent
lostNFound 37 minutes ago | parent
For BYD, a Dolphin 2027 for 21K + VAT. Insane value, by extreme far the best price-perf vehicle in the country’s history. Has every single little thing you might want. For that size and price, at least.
Notably, Tesla is attempting to destabilize the local market, coming in at 30K+VAT for the Premium Model Y which is cheaper than the US, Europe and pretty much anywhere.
I still prefer BYD by far, and not supporting the “controversial fellow”.
At a 20x electricity to gas price ratio (depending on factors, but yes), EVs are key here.
scottyah 1 hour ago | parent
otterley 50 minutes ago | parent
mulderc 45 minutes ago | parent
recursive 41 minutes ago | parent
mulderc 38 minutes ago | parent
recursive 33 minutes ago | parent
xp84 28 minutes ago | parent
Not everyone likes to blow 50-100 grand on an asset which loses 50% of its value in 3 years. Especially considering how much they're trending toward being so expensive to repair and unreliable that keeping it on the road after the warranty runs out is also expensive.
mulderc 16 minutes ago | parent
xp84 33 minutes ago | parent
There's little point in spending more than $ 40,000 - especially for the crap currently being peddled in the U.S. I bought a 3-year-old electric luxury SUV with significantly under 20,000 miles for well under that.
I mean, if you're rolling in money, and don't need it for savings or more important purposes, you do you. But I'm with GP. 40,000 is excessive. Even in our devalued 2026 money.
otterley 23 minutes ago | parent
mulderc 14 minutes ago | parent
redanddead 13 minutes ago | parent
Still needs a step change upgrade on the battery tech
TacticalCoder 40 minutes ago | parent
They're not bad when you're in them but they're not amazing either. The thing is: they're incredibly good value compared to other brand new cars.
But the interior of a great many german cars (for example) is still qualitatively not just a bit but way above BYD.
neves 37 minutes ago | parent
jwallace98221 1 hour ago | parent
toomuchtodo 1 hour ago | parent
BYD is having another ten car carriers built to support growing exports. They’ll be the world‘s biggest auto maker in the next five years.
BYD expands EV shipping fleet as wars upend freight costs and key trade routes - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50333037 - November 2026
- The world’s largest electric vehicle maker will expand its fleet of car-carrying cargo ships to 18 from eight by 2029, according to shipping industry reports. Each new carrier will have the capacity to carry about 9,200 cars and will be built by China Merchants Industry.
- Owning its fleet could cut BYD’s cost to ship each car abroad by as much as 40% compared with renting carriers, according to one industry estimate. BYD’s increasing export capacity could help it push further into global markets, intensifying competition for automakers including Tesla and traditional U.S. brands.
https://cnevpost.com/2026/09/07/byd-targets-2-5-million-over...
- BYD aims to sell more than 2.5 million vehicles overseas in 2027, extending its rapid international growth through a larger shipping fleet and increased production abroad
- Its Indonesian plant has started production, its Brazilian plant is ramping toward annual capacity of 300,000 vehicles, and its Hungarian plant is expected to begin assembly in November or December, Deutsche Bank noted.
teachrdan 1 hour ago | parent
ranger_danger 1 hour ago | parent
TL;DR They severely reduced the number of components by integrating parts into larger pieces. This trades upfront cost savings for longevity concerns and repair prices down the road.
One could argue the US wants to ban them solely because it undercuts other manufacturers, but there's more.
You can also argue it's not good for many other people, like:
- the average consumer (that expects a quality long-lasting product)
- the insurance companies that will be footing a lot of the repair bills
- independent repair shops that either won't get those jobs, cannot actually perform the work due to tech/service monopolies, or simply lose revenue because the work is shorter
masfuerte 1 hour ago | parent
ranger_danger 1 hour ago | parent
cyberax 1 hour ago | parent
There are also third-party replacements available now, because it's not that hard to manufacture most EV components, outside the critical high-voltage paths.
drop_star 1 hour ago | parent
criddell 1 hour ago | parent
diath 1 hour ago | parent
KumaBear 1 hour ago | parent
MarkWayneNewton 1 hour ago | parent
shitloadofbooks 1 hour ago | parent
My Sealion 7 is nicer than my C-Class Mercedes.
GordonS 1 hour ago | parent
moorow 1 hour ago | parent
4ndrewl 1 hour ago | parent
mixmastamyk 1 hour ago | parent
hagbard_c 1 hour ago | parent
scottyah 1 hour ago | parent
Multi-day backpacking trips rarely exceed 60lbs, and even that is way too much- the recommendation is 14–18 kg max for most people.
rootsudo 1 hour ago | parent
Have you priced a similar car like a Toyota vios or Yaris or Honda hrv or brv. These are ICE and gas is what, in the Philippines 2$.gallon?
The only viable alternative that is non Chinese for South east Asia is ironically Vinfast, which are available in the USA and quite ibexpensively.
If you’re biggest claim is the “sear” and the “trunk bedding” you are missing the entire point of what this car is and it’s market position.
But hey, this is how propaganda works.
pelagicAustral 1 hour ago | parent
inthebay 1 hour ago | parent
whalesalad 1 hour ago | parent
ajmurmann 1 hour ago | parent
whalesalad 41 minutes ago | parent
viraptor 1 hour ago | parent
I get not liking something for personal preference reasons, but going as far as garbage and cheap quality in this case just... doesn't match reality. It's a perfectly fine car that works. Lots of people are happy with it.
aianus 1 hour ago | parent
Maybe their more expensive models are better but they're damaging their brand putting it on those cars.
shakow 5 minutes ago | parent
dabinat 1 hour ago | parent
10xDev 1 hour ago | parent
bluGill 41 minutes ago | parent
AndrewDavis 34 minutes ago | parent
In Australia, EVs are now 25% of the new car market, that's far from a small minority.
And sure a used Toyota Yaris might be cheaper for now but it won't be for long. A new Yaris starts from around $30k, you can buy multiple new EVs for cheaper than that. Which has caused downward prices on used EVs, you can buy a 2nd hand Nissan leaf for $6500.
And due to our abundance of rooftop solar much of Australia have access to domestic electricity plans that have hours of free usage a day, meaning if you can charge at home you can charge for free which really pushes the value proposition further
maxglute 1 hour ago | parent
Because that's the point. It's a cheap reliable car that cut corners for high $$$ ROI fleet cars. There's reason most of PRC taxi fleet converted to BYD EVs over last 10 years. It's statistically battle proven and economical, they'll 500,000km like ICE fleet cars and save 30k USD - on fuel + maintenance savings alone you can buy another 2 fleet BYDs. Like a fleet operator would have to be economically stupid to not go for BYD tier EV. You get to enjoy cheap seats.
vehemenz 59 minutes ago | parent
jackvalentine 51 minutes ago | parent
Toyota interiors in particular are hard plastic monstrosities.
bunderbunder 50 minutes ago | parent
And then he spent the rest of the review talking about all the features that people typically hated on, but in a positive light. Because if your primary goal is to make the cheapest car, with the highest fuel economy, for the benefit of people who don't have a whole lot of spending money, those were exactly the design compromises to be making.
cucumber3732842 3 minutes ago | parent
The geo metro isn't that far off from everything else in its day when it comes to build quality, better than comparable models that hadn't been refreshed in longer.
mplewis 45 minutes ago | parent
cowlevel 17 minutes ago | parent
Other people can't fathom why people buy Android phones instead of Apple.
When American companies cut costs we call it innovation.
chupchap 11 minutes ago | parent
unethical_ban 1 hour ago | parent
ranger_danger 1 hour ago | parent
Consumers want protection from cars they can't afford to fix.
Insurance companies want protection from costly warranty repairs.
Mechanics want protection from cheap highly-integrated gatekept parts that they can't work on, and/or won't get paid as much for.
rafaelmn 1 hour ago | parent
Said who ? If it's under warranty for long enough and cheap enough then I don't really care even if I have to fully replace it in 5 years and sell for scrap. Without tariffs that's what the price would be.
ranger_danger 1 hour ago | parent
They may regret it when the battery dies and it's a $20k repair because they're actually structural components on those cars. Or a single $20 sensor dies that's part of a larger non-serviceable $5k component.
unethical_ban 1 hour ago | parent
Again, if they wanted to work in the interest of affordability and electric vehicle promotion, they would. They're being protectionist for Ford and GM.
motionlessveloc 1 hour ago | parent
hagbard_c 1 hour ago | parent
Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to [map] you.
Of course there is a risk to allowing networked automobile sensor packages on your streets if they're feeding a potential adversary live info on everything going on on and around your roads. Denying this isn't virtuous or smart or benevolent, it is at the best naïve.
unethical_ban 1 hour ago | parent
They don't need to ban a nation's cars, they need to set safety standards.
But they want cars to be trackable by their own systems, so they don't want the public getting reacquainted with privacy protection.
scottyah 56 minutes ago | parent
SpicyLemonZest 1 hour ago | parent
unethical_ban 40 minutes ago | parent
scottyah 46 minutes ago | parent
unethical_ban 39 minutes ago | parent
127 44 minutes ago | parent
paimapi 1 hour ago | parent
I think about my home city (6th largest in the US) with its singular interstate looping around our metro area - and Beijing has five of these ring roads on top of having a far more robust public transportation system and tons of scooter/bike usage still.
A single carmaker outselling all of US-made electric vehicles is just normal especially given the prices of these cars (down to something like $8000 USD) and the fact that they live in such dense areas that don't require you to drive 20 miles just to, for eg, get to a Costco or something. So you can have these ultracheap cars with maybe twice the range of lithium-powered golf carts and not spend a ton of money on it along with having 5x the population.
samrus 1 hour ago | parent
This used to be something only the US could do. China always had the population. But it wasnt rich enough to create local demand. Now it can and that creates a flywheel effect of feuling its own innovation, like EVs, LLMs, reusable rockets, sattelite ISPs, and all the other thingsthe US prides itself on.
And eventually it might even make novel things the US or anyone else hasnt even made yet. If that happens then the american empire is truly over
Thrymr 58 minutes ago | parent
petcat 1 hour ago | parent
For all the talk about data and technology sovereignty in Europe about USA tech, you would think they would take that more seriously too. Instead Europe is flooded with underpriced Chinese cars that they have no control over.
moorow 59 minutes ago | parent
petcat 38 minutes ago | parent
machomaster 35 minutes ago | parent
IlikeMadison 32 minutes ago | parent
aucisson_masque 20 minutes ago | parent
haunter 1 hour ago | parent
In fact that's my problem with all EVs because EVEN Lexus, Acura, and Genesis is not sticking to their premium quality when they release an EV version of their ICE cars. The Lexus ES ICE is legendary. The Lexus ES EV looks like a plastic coffin with 2 tablets. It's probably the zeigeist of car designs and/or my taste but I feel all EVs look the same without much personality. Not even mentioning the chinese brands because Geely, Leapmotor, BYD etc all look the same to me.
Say we have a Lexus LX 600 https://www.lexus.com/models/LX Why does this car can't be released as is, the same design and same interior but with an EV drivetrain?
para_parolu 1 hour ago | parent
BLKNSLVR 21 minutes ago | parent
My extended family has three EVs now, and they're fucking great for our needs. They get us to where we need to go, and save us at least $350 a month in fuel.
Having said that, we're in the exact scenario pocket where EVs make sense: We can charge at home overnight, our daily commutes are 50km maximum, we have solar panels and cheap overnight electricity rates, we don't need to tow anything pretty much ever.
EVs are less niche than they were, but they're still not as commodity/utility friendly as ICE cars, but the niche is growing quickly. Interestingly, the haters I've encountered rapidly soften when they actually experience driving in an EV - they're still a ways away from looking to buy one for themselves, but they're noticeably less militantly/irrationally opposed than they were.
Caveat: 1 of the EVs is a 2014 Nissan Leaf, which is at about 80% of its original range. The other two are less than a year old Chinese EVs, and so I can't and won't speak to long term reliability - that's definitely a risk we were willing to take, and won't know whether it was worth it until a few years down the track.
solyin 1 hour ago | parent
jaapz 1 hour ago | parent
dinkblam 1 hour ago | parent
thats because there is zero demand as has been all over the news the past years. the european and especially german car industry wasted billions on EV strategies that now have to be rewound because it turns out there is basically zero demand for expensive EVs. people that can afford expensive cars want ICE.
tw04 1 hour ago | parent
The Lucid gravity is in the same discussion.
Lexus is releasing the TZ which is the equivalent to the TX gasser.
hedora 1 hour ago | parent
I think it's a huge regression vs. the goofy looking i3 (which is carbon fiber, has a working jog wheel, etc). The i4 is basically exactly a modern BMW sedan, but an EV. I think they moved to a platform that lets them just switch between ICE, hybrid and EV. You can even set the safety tone to make it sound like a BMW with tuned exhaust pipes.
detourdog 1 hour ago | parent
delta_p_delta_x 1 hour ago | parent
Porsche Taycan.
mabunday 1 hour ago | parent
I would encourage anyone that lives in America or Europe and hasn't been to China in the past five years to go see it for yourself. Take what western media writes with a grain of salt - you might be surprised.
bunderbunder 1 hour ago | parent
I imagine it's just a fundamentally more palatable compromise for an ICE vehicle. You maybe bump the size of the fuel tank a bit and assume your clientele aren't going to be all that much more cost sensitive about fuel than they are about sticker price and maintenance.
paxy 1 hour ago | parent
Federal subsidies were eliminated. Funding for charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing was rolled back. ICE emission regulations were repealed. Individual states were barred from enforcing their own standards. EVs are down to 6% share of new vehicles sold.
Most domestic manufacturers have given up on EVs entirely and written off their investments. Tesla is the only one standing, and their US sales have also been falling for the last couple years.
Looking back 2024 is probably going to be the peak of the US EV market.
viraptor 1 hour ago | parent
I think that's the thing being pointed out...
mlmonkey 1 hour ago | parent
dyauspitr 1 hour ago | parent
platevoltage 43 minutes ago | parent
adjejmxbdjdn 41 minutes ago | parent
They’ve been boasting about American oil companies having higher profits.
ssl-3 34 minutes ago | parent
We produce a lot of oil in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_extra...
iamjake648 1 hour ago | parent
> Federal subsidies were eliminated. Funding for charging infrastructure and battery manufacturing was rolled back.
These are both signs of a maturing market. It's a good thing that DCFC operators like Ionna, Walmart, etc. are still charging ahead at a pretty rapid pace, even without federal funding. Ionna especially has been deploying at a crazy speed.
> Individual states were barred from enforcing their own standards.
Litigation on this is still playing out. If car manufacturers aren't planning for these to swing back into force with a change of government, they are fooling themselves.
> Most domestic manufacturers have given up on EVs entirely and written off their investments.
Again, not true. Some investments like battery manufacturing, sure, but that's not what they were ever good at. GM has a pretty robust line of EVs, and Ford has bet big on their new platform underpinning on their new 'affordable' truck.
> Tesla is the only one standing, and their US sales have also been falling for the last couple years.
2023 was a stand out year for them, but it's not like they are falling off a cliff. We should expect Tesla sales to fall as other competitors like Rivian, Hyundai/Kia and even Toyota/Subaru release updated offerings.
paxy 1 hour ago | parent
For comparison, that number is 53% in China and 60-70% in most European countries. In Norway 97% of new sales are EVs.
titzer 58 minutes ago | parent
inthebay 58 minutes ago | parent
mschuster91 51 minutes ago | parent
Because a lot of Americans lacks financial literacy (i.e. everyone buying a brand new ICE vehicle).
Even before that godforsaken war it made no financial sense at all to buy an ICE vehicle for most purposes. Now with that war and its effects wrecking the fossil fuel markets, it's even worse.
titzer 1 hour ago | parent
Hmm. 16 million cars sold in the US each year. 1.2 million EVs sold each year. "Maturing" at less than 8% market share is not a good sign.
> Litigation on this is still playing out...these to swing back into force with a change of government
Have you not lived in the US, like ever? It will take anywhere from approximately a decade to never to claw back even a fraction of an progressive legislation or regulation.
> We should expect Tesla sales to fall...when [vague new things come out]
Falling sales is sign of market maturity?
kube-system 59 minutes ago | parent
bluGill 47 minutes ago | parent
Every once in a while people ask about cost and discover that for most people charging in your garage is significantly cheaper than anything else and charging on the road is still cheaper than gas and while it does take longer it's not too bad.
And as was pointed out, there is every reason to believe that there'll be a change in administration in the federal level in a few years. And once again, the rules will change. The car manufacturers are going to keep building what they know and have good investments in. But they're going to keep investing in EVs both because in the world they're important players and also because they know the government will change and with it their rules and they don't want to be left behind.
jhallenworld 44 minutes ago | parent
dyauspitr 1 hour ago | parent
frakkingcylons 1 hour ago | parent
Loughla 47 minutes ago | parent
Their new one is very interesting. I wanted an electric truck when I bought my most recent one but just couldn't afford it. If it's 30k for the base, figure 40k with bells and whistles. That makes it super attainable with a decent trade.
JumpCrisscross 1 hour ago | parent
Our lucky streak as America—Russia blowing itself up, China going wolf warrior right when they needed to build alliances—may continue in our wannabe fascist being so fucking stupid.
mschuster91 45 minutes ago | parent
You are decidedly not on a lucky streak.
Your Dear Leader just threw the US into yet another incompetently waged war on the other side of the world, he tore apart bridges with virtually all allies the US had, including Canada of all places, his reckless usage of his powers to influence corporate decisions (i.e. the ICC sanctions and DoD/Musk throttling Starlink/Starshield for Ukraine) made everyone realize they need their own alternatives not beholden to the US for literally anything, the AI bubble growing uncontrollably while the QE money injections never got taken out of the system is setting you up for a financial disaster that will make 2007 look tame...
adjejmxbdjdn 40 minutes ago | parent
doug_durham 50 minutes ago | parent
adjejmxbdjdn 42 minutes ago | parent
They didn’t put money to rip out existing infrastructure and funding (let’s not give them ideas). It’s future EV charging growth and maintenance that will be affected, and its impact will be felt years from now.
burlesona 43 minutes ago | parent
aftbit 1 hour ago | parent
In my opinion, the core concept is simple: China is a big market that's getting wealthier and BYD makes cheap and innovative cars.
Owning a vehicle is going from a luxury for wealthy people in China to a more every-day thing, driving huge volumes. Meanwhile the rest of the world (US excluded for now) is trying to electrify personal transportation, and China is meeting that demand better than any other country.
TheJoeMan 43 minutes ago | parent
otterley 52 minutes ago | parent
stevenwoo 32 minutes ago | parent
MetaverseClub 38 minutes ago | parent
ryan_glass 37 minutes ago | parent
bunderbunder 30 minutes ago | parent
https://financeliterate.blog/can-fender-bender-total-car-ins...
ryan_glass 17 minutes ago | parent
perfectstorm 16 minutes ago | parent
jimbokun 14 minutes ago | parent
pluc 13 minutes ago | parent
vsgherzi 9 minutes ago | parent
redanddead 18 minutes ago | parent
No amount of fucking banning will work and the US is going to end up with egg on its face when the entire world is using chinese everything and the US is still trying to banhammer. The entire world has started shifting away from the US, not in a positive isolationist way -- in an uncompetitive, stagnating innovation way.
The only way out is through competition and this lesson will probably only be learned when its too late to do anything about it. Everybody saw this coming
applebottomjean 5 minutes ago | parent