36 points sonabinu 1 hour ago 44 comments

ddxv 52 minutes ago | parent

I hope that free open weight models prosper and get spread far and wide. I've started actively talking to people I know who pay for Anthropic subscriptions to make sure they know they're funding a company that actively attacks open weights and sees free models as a danger to society.

trvz 36 minutes ago | parent

To be fair, both local and cloud models are a boon and danger simultaneously to society.

vrganj 17 minutes ago | parent

Sure, but local models at least don't have the threat model of "oligarch decides who's worthy of using them for which usecase"...

boxed 10 minutes ago | parent

They just have the threat model of "the plague is distributed among millions and millions of machine so no one can stop it".

vrganj 8 minutes ago | parent

Plague?

sharemywin 33 minutes ago | parent

if llm agents can code most current software for significantly cheaper than tradisional software development and open llms can replace a good chunk of that work alot of software moats of today disappear or at least have significant pressure on margins putting alot of the pressure on the "value" propping up the stock market. good for society bad for 401ks.

wtch98 22 minutes ago | parent

90% of the Stock Market is owned by 10% of the population. 50% of the stock market is owned by 1% of the population.

The larger problem of a collapse is the recession as the whole house of cards falls down, with a government unwilling or unable to stimulate the economy new-deal style.

lotsofpulp 18 minutes ago | parent

I wonder how much is owned by taxpayer funded defined benefit pension plans.

It does not seem easy to figure out the ultimate beneficiary:

https://x.com/arpitrage/status/1227667060987023361?a=p-ErOXN...

timmg 29 minutes ago | parent

I guess I don't understand the business model of "open weights". Who pays for the training? Who pays for the datasets? Who pays for the reinforcement?

People used to say that if you aren't paying for the product then you are the product. How do we think open weights will be different?

ceejayoz 28 minutes ago | parent

Maybe we should treat it like Wikipedia? A collective project of humanity?

timmg 21 minutes ago | parent

Unironically: I think it would be great if there were open-source datasets that we all collaborated on. But, in my opinion, open source would mean the commercial models could use them, too.

The hard part about a wikipedia model, overall: it costs hundreds(?) of millions of dollars in compute to train these things. Will we be able to get enough donations to afford that?

ceejayoz 14 minutes ago | parent

> The hard part about a wikipedia model, overall: it costs hundreds(?) of millions of dollars in compute to train these things.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_...

Annual Budget: $207.5M

curt15 27 minutes ago | parent

Who pays for Linux development?

wtch98 24 minutes ago | parent

Most developers are paid for by large ompanies selling linux commercially, either directly (like redhat, canonical etc) or as services (google, microsoft, amazon)

ddxv 22 minutes ago | parent

You are right that any closed or open source model that isn't run locally or by a company you reallly trust, is going to be storing an monetizing your prompts. An interesting take I heard was how LLMs will change discovery in cases going forward because people are sending so much of what they are thinking to be recorded by OpenAI or Anthropic.

vrganj 16 minutes ago | parent

Who paid for the LHC?

jorisw 45 minutes ago | parent

Paywalled

FinnKuhn 42 minutes ago | parent

Seems as if major investors saw this coming already, so not that surprising if you have been paying attention.

> Major Investors Are Skeptical Anthropic IPO Can Achieve $1.5T Valuation (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50386597)

jaccola 11 minutes ago | parent

What's 200B between friends?

plutokras 37 minutes ago | parent

> Anthropic will seek a valuation of around $1.33 trillion in its initial public offering [...]

That still feels wildly overvalued. SpaceX went public at a $1.77 trillion valuation, and its P/E ratio is already a whopping 617.7. Anthropic doesn't even own data centers, rockets, a social media platform, or a profitable internet service.

thatsabadlook 35 minutes ago | parent

It is wildly over valued

rvz 17 minutes ago | parent

The numbers are made up as well as the valuation.

irthomasthomas 32 minutes ago | parent

Good use of price anchoring.

ceejayoz 27 minutes ago | parent

> Anthropic doesn't even own data centers, rockets, a social media platform, or a profitable internet service.

On the flip side, their valuation isn't mostly based on one person who could leave or go (more) insane at any time.

infecto 22 minutes ago | parent

How does that compare to a swag of Anthropic’s P/E?

winfredJa 16 minutes ago | parent

spaceX doesnt have P/E since they dont make profit and are not going to for a very long time.

dawie 35 minutes ago | parent

Varelion 35 minutes ago | parent

lol. Lmao, even.

BadBadJellyBean 35 minutes ago | parent

I offer $3.50. Take it or leave it.

thatsabadlook 35 minutes ago | parent

Do they have to threaten the us economy every week by forcing citizens to be exit liquidity for their investors? It's not cute. People are getting sick of it.

1ba9115454 15 minutes ago | parent

Well said. We already had to deal with SpaceX.

PacificSpecific 26 minutes ago | parent

Is this value finally locked in? Can they still change it?

ceejayoz 25 minutes ago | parent

"to seek" and "to get" are not the same, no.

Havoc 21 minutes ago | parent

Rough timing for them with everything dropping and everyone spooked

jorisw 19 minutes ago | parent

They kind of are part of that timing, no?

bitmasher9 20 minutes ago | parent

Anthropic sells the most intelligent intelligence, and they have secured enough compute to build even smarter intelligence. There is the possibility of a chain reaction (AI trains better AI which trains better AI) that ANT leads. This valuation is justified simply by Claude being marginally smarter than its competitors and enterprise customers paying for this advantage.

This is the ANT bet:

1. With current technology, using more computer resources will result in a measurably smarter model.

2. ANT will have more compute resources than anyone else for the next 5 years.

3. The intelligence gap provides meaningful competitive advantage.

4. The regulatory, monetary, or military environments don’t stop ANT from doing its work.

1ba9115454 18 minutes ago | parent

Fill your boots. I'll buy some when it totally tanks. :)

gizajob 10 minutes ago | parent

Same as SPCX.

ernst_klim 9 minutes ago | parent

> enterprise customers paying for this advantage

If better would always mean "economically expedient", we all would fly on hypersound commercial jets.

If $2 model in the hands of good engineer can do the same as $20 model, anthropic will be soon killed by self-hosted open-weight models.

throwa356262 18 minutes ago | parent

1.3T for what?

What assets do they have? A bunch of models that at best are 3 months before the competition? They barely own any hardware, everything they use is rented at a very high price.

Know how? Dont make me laugh. Google and deepseek are doing the innovations. When did Anthropic published a cool idea?

Infrastructure? They dont own any, and since their training and inference is notoriously inefficient they are bleeding money to data center providers.

Customers? Their customer list is shrinking by the day. Companies are reducing their token budget. Some completely moving to on-prem.

Mindshare? Your grandma probably knows what chatgpt is but claude? Also everyone on the left and right hate Anthropic.

Exactly what here is worth this much money??

I personally will pull out of any index fund that includes openai and anthropic. Let someone else loose their savings.

wwizo 12 minutes ago | parent

Good for them. A bit lower than initially estimated, yet still quite north to what they bring to the table today. Is there a market consensus on what their current and future moats are? Models alone will not do it. Ecosystem is can be rivaled ("opus make clone of claude.ai"). What else?

preommr 8 minutes ago | parent

I just don't see how they don't get that valuation.

Not because it's sensible (it isn't), but because of how much hype is behind it, which is all that matters nowadays.

lvoudour 6 minutes ago | parent

This looks like a "winner takes all" valuation, but I can't for the life of me see the "winner takes all" scenario. I see strong commercial competition + competitive free models. Am I blind?

hisfraudulency 6 minutes ago | parent

Not the worst thing in the world. If they IPO'd five months ago at $1.8T and dropped to $1.3 by EOY, they would lose trust of institutional and retail investors.