Yet another Hacker News

Toyota brand Scion is back and it's going to sell a kei truck in America

108 points NaOH 2 hours ago 77 comments

Liuser 1 hour ago | parent

Who is the target market for this? It’s an ICE vehicle, 4wd and limited to a maximum speed of 25mph. Farmers?

nemomarx 57 minutes ago | parent

You do see people taking tractors on roads between farms pretty often, and they usually have the speed limit stuff on.

jdlshore 55 minutes ago | parent

“This makes it not really usable as a daily driver, but keeps it in this beautiful sweet spot where it has a shocking number of commercial and agricultural uses.”

Liuser 53 minutes ago | parent

Doh thank you. No excuses I can give for my poor reading comprehension.

behringer 55 minutes ago | parent

Farmers or land owners. Great for hauling around your property. Like a 4 wheeler with a trailer but road legal.

everdrive 54 minutes ago | parent

It also seems like it'd be a really good city pickup truck.

kelp6063 53 minutes ago | parent

Farmers and universities have been picking up kei trucks for the last few years for things like groundskeeping work. Being able to sell a brand-new vehicle with parts availability to these customers is what Toyota is trying to capitalize on

alistairSH 48 minutes ago | parent

I have a few friends who've purchased older kei trucks. One for use on his property, the other got his tagged in NC (IIRC, it was NC). The local bicycle shop also has a kei van as their "shop truck" (another used one imported from Japan). The imports will go faster than 25mph, but they are terrible on the highway. The 25mph is an artificial limit to meet LSV regulations.

All that said, $25k isn't cheap when you can get a basic Polaris SXS for $15k. It might not be street legal in many states, but much of the usage is going to be on private property.

80fj0348i 43 minutes ago | parent

I think a kei truck might be a better choice than a sxs if noise ordinances are a concern. e.g. utility vehicles for groundskeeping staff

alistairSH 30 minutes ago | parent

The utility SXS aren't particuarlly loud; it's the "racing" SXS that have minimal off-road exhausts that are as bad a pipe-less crotch rockets.

DASD 40 minutes ago | parent

I'm in Western North Carolina(Asheville) and there are an actual number of kei trucks here. Not every other vehicle common but enough to see maybe 5-10 every day.

There are even a few businesses that specialize in these vehicles: https://www.marsminitrucks.com

colechristensen 43 minutes ago | parent

In rural Iowa I saw a ton of those little "UTV", gators, or whatever various brands call them which are effectively beefed up golf carts being driven around town. Trucks have become so enormous and expensive that these somewhat street legal vehicles are taking over for people who just need to go here and there.

chao- 43 minutes ago | parent

A friend with a WFH tech job, who lives on his own land (with family and various critters), bought one a few years ago for hauling materials and supplies around his property.

100percentjake 42 minutes ago | parent

Fleets, as evidenced by Toyota/Scion saying they will exclusively sell to fleet purchasers. My local university, for an example, had 20 or so Daihatsu Hijets when I went to school there, which have given way to far more expensive Ford Bronco Sports and similar. I assume the lack of parts supply and repairability of the Hijets attrited them away. Domestically producing them to keep the chicken tax/tariffs at bay and having dealer service at the local Toyota dealership will make these appealing again in those markets.

bryanlarsen 25 minutes ago | parent

LSV's like this are extremely popular in the retirement home communities like The Villages in Florida. They're allowed on the golf cart paths, and also on a few roads where golf carts aren't allowed.

aaronbrethorst 19 minutes ago | parent

My neighborhood in Seattle has a lot of kei trucks

thelittlenag 59 minutes ago | parent

I didn't know Scion had left...

jdc0589 36 minutes ago | parent

bruh

lenerdenator 58 minutes ago | parent

I like the concept, I just find myself wondering if the Big 3 will pull another Chicken Tax move to protect the full-size pickup golden geese.

Toyota - and Japan in general - has a helluva trade relationship with the US, but that's effectively all Detroit knows how to beat the world at anymore and they love the margins on their truck portfolios, to the point that they considered sedans and most coupes to be too thin to warrant continued production.

tohnjitor 53 minutes ago | parent

Toyota will build this truck in Indiana.

hydrogen7800 53 minutes ago | parent

I recently saw an old kei truck on the road with a CHKNTAX license plate.

moate 51 minutes ago | parent

600 LB weight limit including passengers, top speed of 25 mph, and right hand drive this feels specifically design to be toothless against American pickups. This is a novelty product, I saw an image of one loaded with half a dozen hay bails and I'm wondering who even needs that? This is a novelty car for vineyard owners and show pony stables. Like you'd get just as much use out of a JD Gator and they probably have worse weight distribution.

100percentjake 45 minutes ago | parent

It wasn't "designed" for or against anything American. This is a purely Japanese design designed to Japanese tastes that has historically seen enough success in American markets that Toyota's market research has deemed the juice worth the squeeze to begin manufacturing them in the US to get around the Chicken Tax that previously made them prohibitively expensive and sell them to fleet purchasers. My local university had 20 or so Daihatsu Hijets running around until (I assume) parts supply dried up and they were replaced with far-more-expensive Ford Bronco Sports and similar compact crossovers.

lastofthemojito 44 minutes ago | parent

The nice thing about a minitruck over something like a Gator is you get an interior.

I worked golf course landscaping during some summers in college and drove Gators, which did their job well. But they certainly weren't any relief from being out in the sun all day. This Scion minitruck has heat and air conditioning. And locking doors. So it'll be a respite from the outdoors, as well as a secure (well, as secure as any car) place to leave your personal items.

__alexander 49 minutes ago | parent

It’s a huge mistake to limit the speed to 25mph. When this is released in 2027, Kei trucks will be street legal in Colorado. I would have pre-ordered this without question but that speed makes it useless for basic commuting or running errands.

TSiege 46 minutes ago | parent

I think the strategy is specifically not going for customers who want it for those things. It's meant for farms and work sites not commuting or running errands

bryanlarsen 42 minutes ago | parent

AFAICT, This truck will not be able to pass either the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) or the EPA/CARB emissions standards for high speed vehicles. The new Colorado rules for Kei vehicles does not remove those requirements because it relies on the existing exemptions available for 25+ year old vehicles.

IOW, it needs to keep the 25mph speed limiter to qualify as a low speed vehicle, even in Colorado.

mike_d 39 minutes ago | parent

EPA/CARB effectively sets a minimum size for trucks. Rather than having a small light truck that can do the job, you get a Ford F250 hauling a single bale of hay.

But rolling back or adding exemptions for small trucks is political suicide despite the clear environmental benefits.

bryanlarsen 35 minutes ago | parent

The fact that this tiny engine couldn't meet emissions standards is bonkers. But that's the law as written right now.

readthenotes1 32 minutes ago | parent

Where I live the Ford F-250 is not used for falling a single bit of anything other than air. They are in pristine shape and look like they've never been outside the city limits nor off City roads

ceejayoz 24 minutes ago | parent

My favorite example of this is the big lifted pickups innnnnnnching over slightly bumpy railroad crossings.

Grombobulous 28 minutes ago | parent

This isn’t really true. See: Ford Maverick.

CARB only nudges manufacturers, but the market’s own purchase preferences are doing the big push.

Perhaps the biggest nudge is that gasoline is undertaxed. Consumers will never see a reason to stop driving a 18-25mpg truck when gas being less than $5 a gallon is considered a “high” price. The gas tax hasn’t kept up with inflation.

I don’t love the ford F-150 for being a monster truck, but consider this: with the right configuration it sears 6 adults comfortably, plus having a bed for cargo. Families legitimately replace minivans and other family vehicles with it, plus it can tow and haul being the body on frame truck that it is.

bryanlarsen 19 minutes ago | parent

This vehicle gets 37mpg. For a vehicle with this footprint, CARB requires 63 mpg for the 2026 standard and 121 for the 2032 standard.

Grombobulous 4 minutes ago | parent

CARB was basically nullified by the Trump administration, right?

Either way, if the Maverick gets 37MPG already, seems like it’s not that much of an ask to get it to 67mpg.

If Slate can make a $25,000 EV truck I don’t see why the Ford can’t do the same.

I see a lot of arguments around the idea that these mpg figures are unrealistic or unattainable by the auto industry, but in reality they are just pushing the industry to make changes they are already capable of making but don’t want to bother with.

toast0 5 minutes ago | parent

The Ford Maverick is wider and longer than a 1994 s-10 based on a random site [1].

All while the Maverick has a bed that probably can't properly move a couch.

You probably can't really fit a couch on the back of a kei truck either, but it's ok because they're cute.

[1] https://www.vehiclesizes.com/compare/3771-7714/ford-maverick...

Grombobulous 2 minutes ago | parent

The Maverick seats 4-5 adults comfortably. I think we can be a little more accepting that consumer tastes have changed.

The appeal of a Maverick is that it’s a normal family vehicle that drives just like a passenger car while having a bed where you can put dirty stuff.

__alexander 29 minutes ago | parent

Good point.

lastofthemojito 41 minutes ago | parent

Toyota doesn't seem to be aiming for your business just yet. From their press release:

> As an intentionally low-volume, niche vehicle, the KEI-01 will initially be offered through a fleet-focused pilot program to help the company learn how it can best serve U.S. customers and use cases.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-says-okei-to-america-int...

I do hope they're able to build on this, and maybe offer left-hand-drive and a more reasonable top speed eventually.

laughing_man 34 minutes ago | parent

I doubt Toyota will ever produce a small, inexpensive pickup that you would actually feel comfortable driving on a freeway. It would cut into its Tacoma and Tundra sales, which have a good profit margin. At least, not without some other manufacturer taking market share with such a vehicle.

SoftTalker 27 minutes ago | parent

Limiter delete will likely be readily available in the aftermarket.

julienb_sea 25 minutes ago | parent

It's RHD. I suspect they are testing the waters before they build a proper LHD model targeting the broader US consumer market.

kevin_thibedeau 9 minutes ago | parent

There's already a market for off road use. They are far superior to SxS UTVs that are overpriced for what they deliver. You usually get heat and air conditioning in an enclosed cab with flexible bed configurations. SxSs are glorified toys in comparison.

This is exploiting the existing LSV classification to bypass the chicken tax that limits the current market to old used imports. It will be easy enough to mod them for higher speeds on farms.

6DM 46 minutes ago | parent

With a built in 25mph limiter, that eliminates "city" driving too unfortunately. Most roads around me are 35 mph.

There's sizeable demand for people who want to be able to do runs to the bigbox stores for garden and DIY renovation supplies and store it the rest of the time.

benfrancom 41 minutes ago | parent

I see folks going 25mph in 35mph every time I drive!

kridsdale1 38 minutes ago | parent

Speed limits are an upper bound.

DoctorOW 36 minutes ago | parent

American here, in practice no. They are generally only the upper bound for dense neighborhood streets, throughout most other roadways you will be considered a poor driver if you go lower than the speed limit.

readthenotes1 34 minutes ago | parent

Where I live the major strode has a 45 mph speed limit and during most times of the day we only get to 35 mph but people make up for it by running the red light

rizzom5000 21 minutes ago | parent

Considered a poor driver, and you can be ticketed for impeding traffic. I'd guess you are also more likely to undergo a field sobriety test if and when that time comes.

0x1ch 11 minutes ago | parent

The city of Tacoma, WA recently implemented new ALPR ticketing systems to enforce speed limits in northern Tacoma. They received so many hits, they had to build out a new system akin to a lottery for sending ticket / infraction notices.

To me, that seems like the city is entrapping its citizens to make up for a lack of revenue, when the data clearly shows the speed limit should probably be adjusted. But no, they move to develop a lottery system to send the infractions.

bryanlarsen 7 minutes ago | parent

Speed limit cameras are highly effective at slowing cars down. They were recently removed in Ontario, and the average road speed increased substantially. The pedestrian death counts spiked in both Toronto and Ottawa this year. This is likely not a coincidence.

lakeviewterrace 3 minutes ago | parent

> you will be considered a poor driver if you go lower than the speed limit

This has never stopped left-lane drivers in the Pacific Northwest who are overtly righteous about it.

It will get you ticketed in Germany and many other sane places.

Manuel_D 26 minutes ago | parent

I often ride my ebike at 28 MPH (max legal ebike speed in US) on a street with a 25 MPH speed limit and I'll regularly get cars tailgating me honking and crossing the double line to pass.

asdff 17 minutes ago | parent

Imagine how many diesel exhaust clouds this clown car going 25mph is going to be served at green lights in the bible belt of the US

lakeviewterrace 5 minutes ago | parent

Uh, zero?

It's a work truck not a Prius with a Coexist sticker.

Dig1t 15 minutes ago | parent

I know two people who have been pulled over in the US for driving too slow.

If you drive significantly slower than the flow of traffic it can create a hazard for other drivers.

Generally speaking, much of driving is predicting what other drivers will do. If you behave significantly differently than other cars you do raise the chances of an accident.

bryanlarsen 34 minutes ago | parent

You need to complain to your congressman, not to Toyota. The 25mph limit is set by the Low Speed Vehicle standards.

malfist 10 minutes ago | parent

Why? If they can't make a vehicle safe enough to not require low speed vehicle standards then they should make their vehicles safer.

bryanlarsen 6 minutes ago | parent

Low-speed vehicles are essentially golf carts. Do you expect golf carts to be safe at 65 mph?

chowells 2 minutes ago | parent

Because they can't bear to make vehicles smaller. That's the real terror on American roads. Something like 60% of vehicles are huge because it makes the driver feel better. And indeed, it makes the driver safer in a collision - at the cost of making everyone else in the area less safe. Something has to be done to stop this trend first and foremost.

After that, when vehicle sizes start trending down towards reasonable, we can look at getting speeds up without reducing overall safety.

0xbadcafebee 46 minutes ago | parent

This is pretty cool. It's too bad it's just for fleets. Must be they realized how much money was going to imported Kei trucks, and that they could just... do the importing themselves, and pick up some cash. (edit: looks like they sacrificed payload for the AC/heat? only 600lbs?)

The SXS looks cool, but gearheads want a tiny Jeep replacement (which there are none of in the US), not another UTV/buggy we already have

erickhill 42 minutes ago | parent

660cc engine at ~40 horsepower is about the same as a mid-70s VW Beetle - not in cc size, but HP potential.

This little truck could do a lot more than 25 mph if it were allowed to do so. Not saying that would be safe, and I'd not want to ever put one on a busy freeway, but for getting around most urban cities in the US it's fine as-is but would be even better if the limit was ~40 mph.

mike_d 41 minutes ago | parent

In 1963 Lyndon Johnson added "light trucks" to the Chicken Tax as a quid pro quo to prevent the auto workers union from striking before the election.

As a result we don't get "right sized" trucks like the kei or more efficient farm vehicles like the hilux.

snovymgodym 39 minutes ago | parent

tl;dr: it's for the neighborhood golf cart market

rootsudo 35 minutes ago | parent

So many people here have never driven a kei truck or a wigo/daihatsu agya.

They are not fun cars, they should be cheap and disposable.

The MSRP for this in japan is less than $10,000,$6000 for the base model:

https://toyota.jp/pixistruck/

It's going to go here for what, $15,000? $25,000? Better than buying a 25 yr old one for $10,000 from a used dealer lot that has no parts or real mechanic trained on them but at that price point..

a Mavrick is better.

The amazon truck is better.

SoftTalker 24 minutes ago | parent

$20K (ish) will get you a Slate EV truck with no options, or a forthcoming REO. Those are real, road-legal trucks not carts with a lawn-mower engine.

jbm 13 minutes ago | parent

I remember getting into my father in law's kei truck. He literally was given it for free by someone he knew; that is how disposable they are.

And yeah, absolutely not comfortable.

Toyota selling them for $25k is parasitism. The idea of selling a cheap truck is apparently impossible with their cost structures. (Worse, if it succeeds it will ruin the Japanese market)

The best outcome is that this is a mild success and America gets a second generation shit version for 40 or 50k that has been fattened and rendered worthless, much like the second generation XB. (Hopefully the second generation is on some slop tier SUV platform so it doesn't wreck the economics of the Japanese market.)

GenerWork 32 minutes ago | parent

Can’t wait for Floridians to jailbreak the ECU and set it the top speed for max 35 MPH in order to treat it like a long bed golf cart.

heohk 28 minutes ago | parent

Mom, Dad, I'm kei

internet2000 26 minutes ago | parent

Let's see if the vocal internet crowd puts their money where their posts are. I predict this being a market failure.

davexunit 26 minutes ago | parent

The headline excited me but a gas vehicle with a 25mph limit is useless to me. When is someone gonna make an EV truck with a kei-like form factor? The Slate ain't it.

Grombobulous 23 minutes ago | parent

For those of you clamoring for kei trucks to be street legal in the US, you really need to do some street view comparisons between Japan and the US.

US roads are built for much, much higher speeds. Kei cars purposefully give up safety with the caveat that they’re only used on low speed roadways, and Japan designs their roads with the intention of these vehicles being acceptably safe in that context.

wodenokoto 11 minutes ago | parent

Kei-cars are the smallest class of cars allowed on highways in Japan. Japan highway speeds are quite low at 100km/h, which is still more than twice what this car is limited to.

On intercity highways in Japan you are driving next to as large trucks as anywhere I've driven.

Grombobulous 8 minutes ago | parent

Good correction, I was pretty sure they weren’t allowed on highways but I must have misunderstood.

Oarch 19 minutes ago | parent

Can I please post my favourite song about Kei Trucks: https://youtu.be/MHAOvKJngTQ

Mr_Eri_Atlov 4 minutes ago | parent

If we change the low-speed vehicle standards to 35 mph or 40 mph, KEI trucks could thrive in America as a low-cost mobility solution!